16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
seysonn,
That was has more or less been my thought process for the last several years that I've been doing raised beds with the general mix I mentioned. Prior to that, I did have a more traditional garden where I planted in ground.
This was the first year I abandoned the granular fertilizer for the MG. Which, I just followed the directions on the box with respect to strength but not frequency due to the rain.
It seemed like such a waste to do it in the rain when I figured it would just run out the bottom of the beds. I guess I had that part wrong and perhaps it contributed to my poor production on at least some of the plants.
Humus gives advantage of holding all your nutrients in right place. It is pretty hard work to keep humus content above 4% in the soil.
There is difference between feeding the soil and feeding the plants. Ferts like MG are meant to feed the plants, humus feeds soil and all creatures in it which in turn feed the plants...
Here is a link that might be useful: humus
Hi,
I have these growing in several pots all have twisted flowers.
One of them (the plant is almost 5 feet tall) and the container is a 3gallon self watering pot (an inverted bottle in a pot which takes in water from the bottom as and when required).
Its in a bad shape as there are some suckers not supported. I think I must prune this plant to put it in a better shape but not too sure how to go about.
See ... you have tomatoes setting even though the flowers are "twisted". Patience with the fruiting process ;-)
In my opinion the time to prune a plant you are having difficulty with is when the suckers are small, or not at all. The plant has expended a lot of energy to create them and if they are near the flowering stage this flowering/fruit preparation is all lost. If you pinch them off when they are shorter than your thumb, you minimize the energy lost.
If you have a very healthy plant, there can be plenty of excess energy to spare and it is not so crucial as it is continually producing new foliage.
Your tall plant does not look healthy to me. You suggest heat damage. It might be ... I don't think that can be determined from the picture without knowing the history of how you cultivated that potted plant.
On the bright side of things, I don't think you should be concerned about the petals not completely opening and thrusting the anther cone and stigma forward like a shooting star. This may have to do with the heat and variety. But you have set tomatoes, so I think heat is not the principle problem. I believe you may have a fetilizer imbalance. The self watering container in the desert is very tricky business due to the high evaporation rates leaving fertilizer residue behind to concentrate like in a salt flat on land. It doesn't look to me like this is happening for all the nutrients in yours but I think some may be deficient (the "deficiency" can be caused by excesses of others which prevent the uptake of those in lower concentrations). Also, even though you are in a warm climate, and have not said anything about the plant, the plant looks like mine when they are grown in too much shade. The plant should get direct sun exposure in the morning and plenty of water. The fertilization program is most convenient with controlled release fertilizers like Osmocote. You can get more information on growing in containers in the Container forum (see link), but generally 3 gallons will not give you room for error in fertilization and watering in a 5 foot tall plant and I think this is you major concern to address.
Best gardening
PC
Here is a link that might be useful: Container Gardening
Tomatoes are C3 photosynthesizers that saturate at about 500 mols. Full direct sun gives about 2000 mols of light at sea level on a normal day during the 10:00 a.m to 3:00 pm time frame. The atmosphere filters out roughly 70% to 90% of the harmful UV under these conditions. Go up to Denver CO and the increase in altitude means less atmosphere to filter out the UV. Denver can get up to 3 times more harmful UV than a sea level location in Texas from a combination of higher altitude and less moisture in the air. The more air sunlight passes through, the less intense. Any time the sun is within 15 degrees of the horizon, only about 25% of the sun's rays hit the earth, the rest is absorbed in the atmosphere. This is why you can look at the sun when it is near the horizon but not when it is high in the sky.
Tomatoes originated in a tropical highland area of the Andes mountains within 10 degrees of the equator. They developed a waxy coating on the leaves plus specialized cells on leaf surfaces to protect from the intense sunlight in their native environment. The plants can still be stressed from a combination of high temperatures with high light intensity. If insufficient water is available, the plants will suffer though the effect is usually to make the leaves more susceptible to fungal diseases. So by a combination of high solar intensity, high temperatures, low water availability, and attack by diseases, tomato plants can have their lives shortened and production reduced.
Some tomato growers use shade cloth to reduce plant stress. Shade cloth can both extend productive life and increase total production if correctly used. 40% shade cloth is available from greenhouse suppliers and is appropriate for this use.
Fusion,
The question of light intensity alone is not harmful as long as the plant has time to adapt, unless you have some info showing it is which would be very interesting. (In reasonable environments ... not the Gobi Desert). At low light levels, leaves develop with a different composition. Adapting means giving it time to change its structure to accomodate a high flux.
Up to 70% shade cloth can be necessary in Florida to cut the temperatures (and even then not work). I did fine with standard 30% material and the work is in keeping the plant watered. It is a lot of work, too. A big plant can easily transpire a gallon a day here and if its watering needs are met it appears to produce very well with no signs of damage. I have to say appears because my night temperatures are too high and cause problems with fruit set, so it is more of an assertion than a statement.
Photosynthesis is a photochemical process. When the flux is above the capacity of the leaf to absorb, light is simply not utilized and not damaged, which I think the OP is asking.
Whether UV can cut life expectancy or invite disease is another question. Whether the OP in the mid-Atlantic is wondering about supplementary light which does not have high UV content is another question. You really need to look at total yield IMO, at least that is what I am interested in. For example, if I got 25 pounds out of a plant in 3-4 months, I would consider that plant more successful than one that lived to a ripe old transplant age of 6 months and gave only 15 pounds.
Temperature is important, but doesn't sound like the OP was asking about it either, like many things that can contribute to an unhealthy environment if the plant doesn't get at least 6-8 cool hours to do processes it does best in cool temperatures, and probably in darkness.
PC
Ahoy matey
seysonn has the general idea but he's confused his equinox with solstice, so here is the definitive information you can engineer perfectly a Melbourne VIC garden with:
Here's your best info on the planet:
Date, Direction, Maximum Solar Elevation, Mid-Day Shadow factor
Nov 1 due North, 67 degrees, 0.42
Dec 1 due North, 74 degrees, 0.29
Jan 1 due North, 75 degrees, 0.27
Feb 1 due North, 69 degrees, 0.38
Mar 1 due North, 60 degrees, 0.58
Apr 1 due North, 48 degrees, 0.90
May 1 due North, 37 degrees, 1.32
Jun 1 due North, 30 degrees, 1.73
An example/notes:
On Summer Solstice 10:03 am AEDT December 22, 2014, the Sun will reach its maximum elevation, 75.634 degrees @ 13:18 AEDT.
Your season winds down around May. Example: On May 1st, the mid-day Sun is due north at 37 degrees elevation. That means a plant at mid-day casts a shadow 1.32 times its height, blocking light due south of it along the ground ... e.g. a 2 meter plant will cast a 2.64 meter shadow along the ground, which is its shortest shadow of the day since this is the mid-day Sun I'm giving you ... the astronomical "high noon".
Clear skies
oops, wrong forum... happy gardening ;-)
PC
This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Mon, Nov 3, 14 at 16:54
Yeah PC is right. : I should've said "DECEMBER 21/22" instead of SEP.
But the point is/wast : Plant tallest farthest on the south of your garden. With summer solar altitude of 60 to 75 degrees (@ midday, in Sydney, ) there be be short shadows (Per PC's shadow factor numbers)
As I said the situation on the SH is mirror image (opposite) of NH.
So here we are: As we retire from gardening , here on the NH, you guys are getting into action.
Happy Gardening.
Lindalana wrote: > Daniel, had to laugh, nothing grows in total shadeâ¦
Yep, itâÂÂs âÂÂfunnyâ how newbies learn.
The plants I planted in the shade were seedlings leftovers after planting in the sunny areas.
I simply couldnâÂÂt THROW those leftovers, and I wanted to see what happens, because I read on the Internet a guy that grow OK in total shade.
In my experience, tomatoes DON'T work well in total shade. I don't know in partial shade.
oops, did not see that OP was old...
hopefully someone close to Chicago area will mark their calendars for next year anyway...
I know what you mean Daniel, I grew Monomach hat this year in dappled shade, under high canopies of oaks because I run out of any other space, taste was fantastic, I still got about 12-14 nice sized hearts from it.
I hope this helps...
Here is a little archive of photos that I saved from last years planting of the "4th of July tomato" of 2013 for the first tomato. I got the seeds from amazon, and they came in a ziplock bag just stating "4th of July" but no Burpee package.
I posted a link below when I first planted it. I think the date was May 16th according to my youtube video.
Here is a link that might be useful: When I planted the 4th along with Ramapo LInk
Somehow this thread got forgotten. So, I know what happened later in the season in my garden:
1) Siletz was the star performer, in earliness, size and continued production.
2) Bloody butcher was also early but it was a poor performer.
3) Matina came from behind and kept on producing consistently.
4) Stupice failed. Not only it was not early but also a mediocre performer with small inconsistent size fruits.
4) I also had Silvery Fir Tree. I liked its foliage. It did just one flush. Early ones were good size but a lot of cat faces. Nothing to write home about.
ZAP: Stupice definitely is banned from my garden. Bloody Butcher is 50/50.
I will plant just one SFT in pot. I just like its foliage.
Winners in early category: Siletz and Matina.
Altho I like yellow and golden tomatoes, I am not fond of Jubilee and its similar offspring Sunray. Sunray has more resistance to Fusarium, but both are quite vigorous and productive. Quite meaty and somewhat dry for me. They were quite popular for home gardeners in the 50's and 60's.
I suspect that they have been blended in todays market. There were other round yellows in thier time frame.
It is possible it was deer. They get a bite, do not like the taste. Move to eating something else. They tend to eat cucabit vines roots and all most times. If so soak some tampons in ammonia then tie them to some stakes in the corners, and set a few in the middle. Redip them when they dry out. That should keep any critters out. I was once in an area where bears, and moose would devastate a garden quickly.
I found out much later that slugs eat tomatoes too. I have caught some red handed. It is amazing how they climb all the way up there to find a tomato. I have a good plan to take care of them and the earwigs next year. I don't mind the birds. If you provide them water dish, they won't peck on the maters.
Ripening tomatoes in late Oct in Northern NJ is not going to be easy. Temps are barely passing 60, and there are very short days... not enough sun.
There might be a frost on Sunday night... I'd recommend bringing the tomatoes inside to finish ripening... it may go faster.
Hi joflo
I would say it really depends. I am facing the same cold snap back to back nights as you except I'm looking at 40-42 F tonight after a high of 60, and tomorrow the same but barely 2-3 degrees warmer, here in 9a. I feel it will be ok but put a damper on the growth we really need. If I had an option to cover them, I would. That's because our cold snap has been caused by a set of two consecutive different cold fronts sweeping in less than two days.
The first one brought rain, and got the temp half way down, and nothing to worry about except maybe mold. The second one came in this morning and tonight's the night. The problem I worry about is temoperature is not all the story. We have a howling wind which is what happened since there are no clouds (not rain here) to moderate the cold sky tonight and the winds will continue howling.
The importance of covering is twofold. One is for temperature, but, if you are in howling winds 30 mph gusting regularly here today, the plants still will have moisture coming off their leaves and humidity causing condensation on them ... a very typical Florida scenario around 6 am when the temp bottoms out.Even if it is in the low 40's, with this howling wind, there is no guaranty the plants will be fine. Covered they will be fine. That said, I have no option to cover my set up today and will bear it, but if I had something I definitely would. Chill factor + condensation is very real and where it is all at for us.
Just thought I'd throw that out there. When dealing with winds, cold and Florida, blanket statements on temperature are not a good idea. I'm going to hang at light at each row end. When the plant is photosynthesizing dew will not condense in my experience I wish I had a light for all the plants, but the outer ones at the end of the tunnel get the highest wind.
I'm worried I'll be losing fruit set. I have at least 100 flowers that would have been set for pollination tomorrow, but I think this will be cold enough to ruin the pollen. Maybe a quick trip to Lowes for blossom set spray to use tomorrow...
The others have more experience when it comes to cold and what to do, but where I'm at the dew+wind is something I'm not sure fully translates from Florida.
One thing I will do is have is a gallon of nice irrigation water (about 65 F -68 F) gallons of irrigation water to slowly add plant by plant just as the weather starts warming about 9:15am to give them a good start. Since mine are in containers, that will help a lot. This one thing I know works from last winter if you have containers.
PC
Well, according to some of you, what I have is NOT Stupice.
ItâÂÂs HIGHLY unlikely that I made a mistake when planting.
I consider myself a VERY organized person.
But, I had in my garden purple and yellow tomatoes that I never planted.
I mean - technically - I did, but those varieties were not what I ordered.
Btw, both the purple and the yellow tomatoes were VERY tasty. I was never a fan of colored tomatoes. Now... I AM !
Now, as you can read above in a previous message, I posted a few links with pictures of Stupice from different seeds companies. The Stupice in those pictures look pretty similar to my Stupice. Please take a look.
Maybe there are different types of Stupice, I mean different shapes, different sizes, different DTMsâ¦
fusion_power and lindalana, thank you for your recommendations - very useful info.
Another strange thing that happened with my Stupice: it has grown full size and took 3 (THREE !) weeks to get red. Meantime, most of its "neibors" - medium / late season - were ripening nicely. Some (large) varieties took 3-4 DAYS (from full size green to red.)
This post was edited by Daniel_NY on Fri, Oct 31, 14 at 10:25
Daniel wrote:
Maybe there are different types of Stupice, I mean different shapes, different sizes, different DTMsâ¦
%%%%%%%%%%%%
I believe so.
Here a picture of what I got . I just picked them yesterday.
As you can see they are not round but lobed. Though you can find a round one now and then. The ones in this picture are about 1 oz. But I have harvested many smaller than half an oz.
Goodbye Stupice !
Siouxzn,
I think you are right. Fermentation change the color to light dull greyish appearance.
Fermentation produces a substance caled "Lactic Acid". Obviously, acid will etch and create a dull surfaces. That is how supposedly it destroys the pathogens and bad bacteria. That is how pickle is make, by lacto fermentation with salt..
A trick to speed up fermentation:
Add maybe a tsp of plain yogurt whey. It is like adding yeast to grape juice to speed up the process. a piece of rotten tomato will do the same. Rotting in this case is fermentation.
About Adding Water:
If you add chlorinated tap water, probably it will kill the bacteria responsible for fermentation. It is ok to add bottled water. This is the common practice for making pickle by fermentation also.
ah ok. good to know. I was worried that perhaps I ruined several batches. Also, I am bummed I did not hop in this particular forum sooner, I missed out on your seed swap.. :( (Although this year I do not have a ton to contribute). I look forward to next year where I can participate and send a good amount in as well!
:)
Yeah, Sure. I was talking about deciding based on personal experience.
This past season I planted about a dozen varieties, mostly for the first time. I am dropping about 5 of them and instead I will try 5 new varieties;
THREE MORE that I will grow them again:
-1- Cherokee Purple: Mostly for special taste, texture and color.
2-- Ananas Noire: To me the juiciest tomato, with the most beautiful, appetizing multi-color meat. It is a bit LATE MID season but I get to harvest a lot before the end of season.
--3-- Japanese Brown Trifele : Also not a traditional red/pink, this is a tasty tomato. I would not call it "BLACK". b/c It is a perfect "BROWN" tomato with a near perfect balanced sweetness and acidity.
I will Name a few in another post.
This post was edited by seysonn on Thu, Oct 30, 14 at 4:00
yeah, based on personal experience, this season I've grown about 80 new varieties, and generally grow 40-60 varieties. I have boatload of varieties that I liked and did well for me... problem there are so many new ones to try LOL
plus every year is different. This year soil test showed deficiency in Manganese, Sodium and Boron so same varieties from this year might go up another brix or two once it is fixed....
FALL CLEAN UP: Done
Today was a sunny and pleasant day. So I did my fall clean up by removing all plants, the green tomatoes. stakes and the cages . I did not disturb the soil, b/c I want to spray the beds with fungicide, to kill all the bacteria and fungi on the surface.
The next step will be covering the beds with plastic and putting the beds to bed. But before that I would let the beds to air a bit. I plan to amend the soil in the spring just before plant out by adding, manure, pine bark fine and granular fertilizer, about a month before plant out.
Happy Retirement !
This year compost was made with addition of many goodies- micro elements that are missing from the soil according to soil test, EM, minerals etc.
Piles are now cooling and full of worms. Covered them for the winter period.
Adding wood chips to the perennial garden and looking over catalogs which perennials to grow for next year swap. Def want primulas but rest still undecided.
Got seeds packaged for the Tormato swap.
Got most of my varieties wants 2015, including most requested in 2014 and famous Margaret Curtain. Now the biggest dilemma is cutting my must grow list to acceptable number.