16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Lindalana wrote: > Daniel, had to laugh, nothing grows in total shadeâ¦
Yep, itâÂÂs âÂÂfunnyâ how newbies learn.
The plants I planted in the shade were seedlings leftovers after planting in the sunny areas.
I simply couldnâÂÂt THROW those leftovers, and I wanted to see what happens, because I read on the Internet a guy that grow OK in total shade.
In my experience, tomatoes DON'T work well in total shade. I don't know in partial shade.
oops, did not see that OP was old...
hopefully someone close to Chicago area will mark their calendars for next year anyway...
I know what you mean Daniel, I grew Monomach hat this year in dappled shade, under high canopies of oaks because I run out of any other space, taste was fantastic, I still got about 12-14 nice sized hearts from it.
I hope this helps...
Here is a little archive of photos that I saved from last years planting of the "4th of July tomato" of 2013 for the first tomato. I got the seeds from amazon, and they came in a ziplock bag just stating "4th of July" but no Burpee package.
I posted a link below when I first planted it. I think the date was May 16th according to my youtube video.
Here is a link that might be useful: When I planted the 4th along with Ramapo LInk
Somehow this thread got forgotten. So, I know what happened later in the season in my garden:
1) Siletz was the star performer, in earliness, size and continued production.
2) Bloody butcher was also early but it was a poor performer.
3) Matina came from behind and kept on producing consistently.
4) Stupice failed. Not only it was not early but also a mediocre performer with small inconsistent size fruits.
4) I also had Silvery Fir Tree. I liked its foliage. It did just one flush. Early ones were good size but a lot of cat faces. Nothing to write home about.
ZAP: Stupice definitely is banned from my garden. Bloody Butcher is 50/50.
I will plant just one SFT in pot. I just like its foliage.
Winners in early category: Siletz and Matina.
Altho I like yellow and golden tomatoes, I am not fond of Jubilee and its similar offspring Sunray. Sunray has more resistance to Fusarium, but both are quite vigorous and productive. Quite meaty and somewhat dry for me. They were quite popular for home gardeners in the 50's and 60's.
I suspect that they have been blended in todays market. There were other round yellows in thier time frame.
It is possible it was deer. They get a bite, do not like the taste. Move to eating something else. They tend to eat cucabit vines roots and all most times. If so soak some tampons in ammonia then tie them to some stakes in the corners, and set a few in the middle. Redip them when they dry out. That should keep any critters out. I was once in an area where bears, and moose would devastate a garden quickly.
I found out much later that slugs eat tomatoes too. I have caught some red handed. It is amazing how they climb all the way up there to find a tomato. I have a good plan to take care of them and the earwigs next year. I don't mind the birds. If you provide them water dish, they won't peck on the maters.
Ripening tomatoes in late Oct in Northern NJ is not going to be easy. Temps are barely passing 60, and there are very short days... not enough sun.
There might be a frost on Sunday night... I'd recommend bringing the tomatoes inside to finish ripening... it may go faster.
Hi joflo
I would say it really depends. I am facing the same cold snap back to back nights as you except I'm looking at 40-42 F tonight after a high of 60, and tomorrow the same but barely 2-3 degrees warmer, here in 9a. I feel it will be ok but put a damper on the growth we really need. If I had an option to cover them, I would. That's because our cold snap has been caused by a set of two consecutive different cold fronts sweeping in less than two days.
The first one brought rain, and got the temp half way down, and nothing to worry about except maybe mold. The second one came in this morning and tonight's the night. The problem I worry about is temoperature is not all the story. We have a howling wind which is what happened since there are no clouds (not rain here) to moderate the cold sky tonight and the winds will continue howling.
The importance of covering is twofold. One is for temperature, but, if you are in howling winds 30 mph gusting regularly here today, the plants still will have moisture coming off their leaves and humidity causing condensation on them ... a very typical Florida scenario around 6 am when the temp bottoms out.Even if it is in the low 40's, with this howling wind, there is no guaranty the plants will be fine. Covered they will be fine. That said, I have no option to cover my set up today and will bear it, but if I had something I definitely would. Chill factor + condensation is very real and where it is all at for us.
Just thought I'd throw that out there. When dealing with winds, cold and Florida, blanket statements on temperature are not a good idea. I'm going to hang at light at each row end. When the plant is photosynthesizing dew will not condense in my experience I wish I had a light for all the plants, but the outer ones at the end of the tunnel get the highest wind.
I'm worried I'll be losing fruit set. I have at least 100 flowers that would have been set for pollination tomorrow, but I think this will be cold enough to ruin the pollen. Maybe a quick trip to Lowes for blossom set spray to use tomorrow...
The others have more experience when it comes to cold and what to do, but where I'm at the dew+wind is something I'm not sure fully translates from Florida.
One thing I will do is have is a gallon of nice irrigation water (about 65 F -68 F) gallons of irrigation water to slowly add plant by plant just as the weather starts warming about 9:15am to give them a good start. Since mine are in containers, that will help a lot. This one thing I know works from last winter if you have containers.
PC
Well, according to some of you, what I have is NOT Stupice.
ItâÂÂs HIGHLY unlikely that I made a mistake when planting.
I consider myself a VERY organized person.
But, I had in my garden purple and yellow tomatoes that I never planted.
I mean - technically - I did, but those varieties were not what I ordered.
Btw, both the purple and the yellow tomatoes were VERY tasty. I was never a fan of colored tomatoes. Now... I AM !
Now, as you can read above in a previous message, I posted a few links with pictures of Stupice from different seeds companies. The Stupice in those pictures look pretty similar to my Stupice. Please take a look.
Maybe there are different types of Stupice, I mean different shapes, different sizes, different DTMsâ¦
fusion_power and lindalana, thank you for your recommendations - very useful info.
Another strange thing that happened with my Stupice: it has grown full size and took 3 (THREE !) weeks to get red. Meantime, most of its "neibors" - medium / late season - were ripening nicely. Some (large) varieties took 3-4 DAYS (from full size green to red.)
This post was edited by Daniel_NY on Fri, Oct 31, 14 at 10:25
Daniel wrote:
Maybe there are different types of Stupice, I mean different shapes, different sizes, different DTMsâ¦
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I believe so.
Here a picture of what I got . I just picked them yesterday.
As you can see they are not round but lobed. Though you can find a round one now and then. The ones in this picture are about 1 oz. But I have harvested many smaller than half an oz.
Goodbye Stupice !
Siouxzn,
I think you are right. Fermentation change the color to light dull greyish appearance.
Fermentation produces a substance caled "Lactic Acid". Obviously, acid will etch and create a dull surfaces. That is how supposedly it destroys the pathogens and bad bacteria. That is how pickle is make, by lacto fermentation with salt..
A trick to speed up fermentation:
Add maybe a tsp of plain yogurt whey. It is like adding yeast to grape juice to speed up the process. a piece of rotten tomato will do the same. Rotting in this case is fermentation.
About Adding Water:
If you add chlorinated tap water, probably it will kill the bacteria responsible for fermentation. It is ok to add bottled water. This is the common practice for making pickle by fermentation also.
ah ok. good to know. I was worried that perhaps I ruined several batches. Also, I am bummed I did not hop in this particular forum sooner, I missed out on your seed swap.. :( (Although this year I do not have a ton to contribute). I look forward to next year where I can participate and send a good amount in as well!
:)
Yeah, Sure. I was talking about deciding based on personal experience.
This past season I planted about a dozen varieties, mostly for the first time. I am dropping about 5 of them and instead I will try 5 new varieties;
THREE MORE that I will grow them again:
-1- Cherokee Purple: Mostly for special taste, texture and color.
2-- Ananas Noire: To me the juiciest tomato, with the most beautiful, appetizing multi-color meat. It is a bit LATE MID season but I get to harvest a lot before the end of season.
--3-- Japanese Brown Trifele : Also not a traditional red/pink, this is a tasty tomato. I would not call it "BLACK". b/c It is a perfect "BROWN" tomato with a near perfect balanced sweetness and acidity.
I will Name a few in another post.
This post was edited by seysonn on Thu, Oct 30, 14 at 4:00
yeah, based on personal experience, this season I've grown about 80 new varieties, and generally grow 40-60 varieties. I have boatload of varieties that I liked and did well for me... problem there are so many new ones to try LOL
plus every year is different. This year soil test showed deficiency in Manganese, Sodium and Boron so same varieties from this year might go up another brix or two once it is fixed....
I don't know why your tomatoes cracked while in the frig. But as Dave said some varieties (with thin skin, IMO) crack more readily. I had both Sun Gold (thin skin) and unknow variety (thicker skin). The latter never cracked.
The simple solution to cracking, as I have experimented and is true is just pick them as they turn color(say 50%). Then leave then in the room temperature (65F to 75F ?), on the counter, in the basement ... They should get nice color without cracking .
I had to top them. Or they would grow to 8' tall.
Daniel made a very good point about the height. If you can't deal with an 8-12 foot tall plant, which is perfectly normal for most indeterminate varieties, then you may want to re-evaluate the support system and the spacing you are using before next year. Either that or just stick with determinate varieties.
Dave
Daniel,
Your garden is going like Energizer Bonny. hehe. Good for you. Some of my plants are live and well but nothing near yours.
I am waiting for a nice sunny day to clean up and call it "a season". I am working on my 2015 plans now. " What To Grow, What Not To Grow". @ your recommendation, I will grow Brandy Boy, for sure. I know it is a hybrid . So I got to get seeds.That will be probably the only hybrid I will grow.
Thank You Lubadub,
Here is more on seeds and how to make crosses. however, I do not know how to leave the url under a click. so you will have to do a google search for this topic. It is available online for free. you can download the pdf off the screen.
google search for pdf of
Breeding Organic Vegetables
a step by step guide for growers
nofany.org offers it free online
if someone can do the url properly then do it. for those coming now skip down and see if someone has it posted easier to find.
Posted by Deeby 9b (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 16:47
Someday researchers will say, "Wait ! We were wrong ! New developments show..." and everyone stocks up on TUMS..
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
There is no secret about TUMS.
TUMS:( I read on the label)
Active Ingredients : Calcium Carbonate, 1000 mg.
..............
Witch's Brew: Calcium Acetate ( dolomitic lime + vinegar >>> CO2 + Calcium Acetate + water)
Note: Vinegar = 95% H2O + 5% Acetic Acid.
My Conclusion:
Calcium ( in ionic form of Ca++)can be taken up by plants, regardless of the source. Foliar spraying/feeding can bypass the root system for a nearly instant satisfaction.
I grew about a dozen varieties this past season. Not a single tomato was lost to BER. But I did use fertz with Calcium and also used Calcium Acetate (my own brew) later in the season on tomatoes and peppers. I will do the same next season.
TO EACH HIS OWN.
I am all Organic. and if I need something to save the crop, I lose the crop and choose to be all Organic and just do not grow that crop in the future. I see nothing wrong with losing a crop to not poisoning myself the land and all things around me and the water below ground. this world has no opportunity to survive the excuses of the EGO. The intellectual mind of the EGO will destroy and kill everything. The EGO can never choose love over conflict and destruction. Wake up. observe your own mind at work. the human mind is the PROBLEM not the solution.
My father 65 years ago used to add milk to the tomatoes. If we kids had any left over milk we would add water to the glass and pour it onto the tomato garden. he said it was good for the tomatoes. that it was fertilizer for them. as a little kid I believed him. what did I know.
I do know his father grew tomatoes before 1900.
Now I have to investigate another person line that grew same F2 seedlings because her line ended up being far more BW with later maturing date but very delish, winner in taste by my opinion.
&&&&&
The F2's I grew were midseason and the one Jeff stabilized was also midseason, so I have a problem seeing what you describe as being later maturing like BW. How much later than either of the two parents since all the various BW's I've grown have been late midseason, not late season, which for me is over 80 days, roughly.
Taste? Subjective as always,''Was it red and PL?
The others you know also worked with just the BW X Stupice cross?
Just curious on the above questions,
Carolyn
My friends selections of 2006 and 2009 years, grown by me this year were about a week earlier than Maya's and all of them were what I call early midseason. My friend gave some of her F2 seedlings to another friend who got her selections growing for few years and from her I got this later midseason, more on large BW size at about when regular BW will start for me. Am thinking in that selection very little was left from Stupice genes and quite a bit from BW... is this possible that as line continue to develop, less and less of one parent left and more and more of another comes out?
Ahoy matey
seysonn has the general idea but he's confused his equinox with solstice, so here is the definitive information you can engineer perfectly a Melbourne VIC garden with:
Here's your best info on the planet:
Date, Direction, Maximum Solar Elevation, Mid-Day Shadow factor
Nov 1 due North, 67 degrees, 0.42
Dec 1 due North, 74 degrees, 0.29
Jan 1 due North, 75 degrees, 0.27
Feb 1 due North, 69 degrees, 0.38
Mar 1 due North, 60 degrees, 0.58
Apr 1 due North, 48 degrees, 0.90
May 1 due North, 37 degrees, 1.32
Jun 1 due North, 30 degrees, 1.73
An example/notes:
On Summer Solstice 10:03 am AEDT December 22, 2014, the Sun will reach its maximum elevation, 75.634 degrees @ 13:18 AEDT.
Your season winds down around May. Example: On May 1st, the mid-day Sun is due north at 37 degrees elevation. That means a plant at mid-day casts a shadow 1.32 times its height, blocking light due south of it along the ground ... e.g. a 2 meter plant will cast a 2.64 meter shadow along the ground, which is its shortest shadow of the day since this is the mid-day Sun I'm giving you ... the astronomical "high noon".
Clear skies
oops, wrong forum... happy gardening ;-)
PC
This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Mon, Nov 3, 14 at 16:54
Yeah PC is right. : I should've said "DECEMBER 21/22" instead of SEP.
But the point is/wast : Plant tallest farthest on the south of your garden. With summer solar altitude of 60 to 75 degrees (@ midday, in Sydney, ) there be be short shadows (Per PC's shadow factor numbers)
As I said the situation on the SH is mirror image (opposite) of NH.
So here we are: As we retire from gardening , here on the NH, you guys are getting into action.
Happy Gardening.