16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Thanks Sey
It turned out that the temp dropped to around 33-34 (from a weather station) and the only damage I noticed was the cherry tomato plant which was the tallest showed signs of damage but not ruined as you can see in the top photo. The top stuck out above my 6ft fence line, but lower all seemed to be fine along with the tomatoes even at the top.
The rest of the plants were green but seemed to droop a little bit but no sign of damage other then the leaves falling off from prior. The next ten days I hope will be ok, and they say the low will be around 40 but I know the time is coming soon.
The bottom photo is my latest harvest ready to eat just about (I kind of like the contrast with the tomatoes with the fall decorations lol), and got 2 more bowls like that but they just started to turn color. Anyway thanks again both of you and I will update some photos soon.
- Mr Beno
Yeah, take a look at the blossom set spray and be prepared if you decide it's worth it. Normally it is unnecessary, but we are basically asking for production in colder than seasonal weather for our Super Sweet 100s when they otherwise would be hitting their stride, and that's exactly when the blossome spray can be most helpful ... if there are cold snaps breaking up some otherwise reasonable cooler growing conditions IMO. I'll do my part to keep the enthusiasm and show you my cooler Zone 9 progress. Here's a week after my first pic above. Humid, 49 F two night cold snap did not prevent mine from normally setting fruit without help. Anything below that and I'll get the spray, but the forecast is behaved so far in coastal North FL. Now we're back to lows around 70 F at night:
PC
MammaWolf, here we go again, looks like I'm going to have 18 total blossoms on this one. It's the same truss, one and two weeks after my earlier pics. So far, 9 tomatoes, 4 blossoms, and 5 buds. Ours both began flowering on the same day and I'm at the same latitude as you, too ;-)
PC
Holy cow! With the size of those tomatoes compared to your hand, how big was that seed envelope?!
I'm with you, I grow mostly heirloom and open pollinated tomatoes (maybe 5% hybrids) so I can save seeds and don't have to pay Burpee and other retailers prices over and over again.
Betsy
Good reviews.
So if Moravsky Div is similar to Stupice (fruit wise ) but it is semi-det , I might grow it in place of Stupice, as I am dropping it. I am switching to dets and semi-dets, cause they require less space and are better manageable.
One more thing: I grew both Stupice and Bloody Butcher. To me their fruits are almost identical in size and shape (lobed instead of round).
One more thing: I grew both Stupice and Bloody Butcher. To me their fruits are almost identical in size and shape (lobed instead of round).
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If both were lobed and not round you either had the wrong seeds or there was some kind of weather effect although I can't tell you what since I've grown both many times and always round,
At the bottom of this post is a link for Stupice showing the round fruits and here's one for Bloody Butcher and if you click on where it says more pictures you can see more round fruits.
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Bloody_Butcher
All four Stupices bred in the now Czech Republic and Bloody Butcher bred by Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands, and I'm not sure why Tania made mention of Tom Wagner, well I do, but he had nothing to do with BB,
Carolyn
Here is a link that might be useful: Stupices ( plural)
PREVENTION IS KEY...MUST START EARLY...ONE WAY IS TREAT SOIL WITH NEEM OIL SPRAY SEVERAL WEEKS BEFORE PLANTING....OR NEEM MEAL...LAY DOWN SOAKER HOSE DOWN ROW AND COVER WITH BLACK PLASTIC TO WARM SOIL, AFTER PLANTING, AND TEMP STARTS RISING, COVER PLASTIC WITH STRAW OR LEAVES TO KEEP SOIL COOL...FARMERS PREFER THIS METHOD I UNDERSTAND...NO NEEM NEEDED WHEN USING PLASTIC...THE INDIAN
On the diseas contol:
I have come to the understanding that PREVENTION is the key. Having said that I believe in systematic, scheduled spraying with your fungicide , from the time you plant. I personally use both Daconil (synthetic) and Neem Oil (organic).
I will go an step forward and recommend the following :
== spraying the bed(s) ahead of planting.
== mulching , with plastic or things like pine bark which in non splashing and aerating.
== Start removing lower leaves from early on, to a height of about a foot, or more from the ground. This will serve 2 purposes: One: to prevent splash and two: provide air flow.
==keep the leaves dry, as much as possible. We cannot stop the rain but we can water such a way that leaves won't get wet. Especially when you prune the lower leaves.
== PRUNING: One of its benefit in disease control and prevention is that it can aide air flow. Most fungi/mold need a wet and stagnant environment to thrive and multiply. This fact is more applicable where you get a lot of rain. I know this because it is the case in the PNW, where I am gardening. Even a lot of pests prefer moist/wet environment.
==Adequate spacing the plants can also help. But those of us who cannot afford it due to scarcity of real estate, pruning is an alternative.
== Support your plants: Caging, staking, weaving stringing are common methods. In my mind sprawling is an invitation to a lot of soil and air borne diseases due to stagnation. Unless you garden in places like SoCal that rarely rains during the summer months.
On the fertilizing:
there is a new practice about the NPK ratios that I subscribe too. It says that most plants need them at 3-1-2 ratio. For example MG blue water soluble is a good one with 24-8-16 . It is also less expensive, pound per pond than any fertilizer that I know off. If you are organic, try to find something close to 3-1-2 ratio
Let it be know, finally, that the above is solely my opinion. And I am not claiming anything about its accuracy, even though I practice it myself.
This post was edited by seysonn on Sun, Oct 19, 14 at 17:22
Both early blight and tomato wilt ARE soil borne. Late blight is one of the rare fungal pathogens that does not reside in the soil - it is usually transmitted by infected plant material or live spores can blow in with wind and rain storms. However, since the widespread severity in the outbreaks of late blight in home gardens since the late 90's, it has been determined that new strains of the late blight fungus may have spread to many areas. Some of these strains may interact and form a type of resistant spore that can survive for long periods in soil.
The persistence of these pathogens in the soil is the reasoning behind the recommendation for crop rotation. The soil can be reused but I'd caution against using it for anything in the Solanaceae family.
elc, my answer to your question in your post is at the bottom of this post but please do read what I've posted first.
Blight is a general word that to most folks means a sick tomato or potato plant/
There are the fungal foliage diseases of Early Blight ( Alternaria solani) and Septoria LEAF Spot ,, and the two bacterial ones Bacterial Speck and Bacterial Spot, and NONE of them are soil borne diseases/
The spores of the first two and bacteria from the second two may fall to the soil from infected plants and the next year be splashed back onto the lower foliage after heavy rains or irrigation and that's called splashback reinfection.
There are many other diseases that do cause wilts, the foliage diseases do not, and the most common wilt dieases of Fusarium and Verticllium are soilborne and Root Knot Nematodes in CA and the south where the gound does not freeze deeply and areas. I repeat, where the soil does not freeze deeply/
There are two major mating types of LB (Phytopthera infestans a systemic disease) now, before about 199o, as noted above, and before that there was just one.
This gets a bit complicated so I tried to find some links that would explain it best rather than my doing a lot of typing.
Both mating types A1 and A2 are now found in the US and are most predominant in the middle Atlantic states and especially the PNW/
When the two mating types meet they can form oospores that can overwinter whereas the LB most of us know cannot.
Oospores can give rise to recombinant strains or LB that have more tolerance to to the antifungals that commercial farmers use, the most important one being Ridomil, which is not available to home gardeners.
The best prevention for home gardeners is Daconil.
And now it's time to get some links going so I don't have to go through the life cycle and so much more.
The first link which is at the very bottom does a good job of explaining the situation in non-technical terms.
Here;s a second one from MI that is also non technical.
http://migarden.msu.edu/uploads/files/e1802.pdf
Elc, you mentioned both blight and wilt in your initial post. You said that it was new soil, so one has to assume it had NO foliage disease spores or bacteria in that new mix, and it wouldn't have had any soilborne wilt pathogens either,
So I have to assume that what your plants had were one or more of the fungal foliage pathogens that are spread via wind and embedded in rain droplets, or from irrigation.
Yes, I know CA and occasionally it does rain and yes the wind can blow in spores from other areas.LOL
If those foliage pathogens dropped onto your container soil then yes, they could be a problem next year , the same as if you were growing inground as to splashback reinfection, so what you can do is to remove maybe 4-6 inches of that possibly contaminated mix and top it off with new mix. Or if money is not a factor, dispose of the mix in the containers and replace with new.
If it were me I'd remove the several inches and top it off.
All NEW infections with the fungal and bacterial pathogens are acquired via wind, rain or irrigation as I mentioned above, as opposed to splashback reinfection.
Hope the above helps,
Carolyn
Here is a link that might be useful: LB mating types and more
I think what's being suggested is that the seeds you got in whatever swap you were a part of were mislabelled as Black Cherry and what you grew resembles Blush or Maglia Rose, both bred by Fred Hempel.
Not that you yourself had seeds for either one.
Carolyn
Yes, however it is quite possible that this is an experimental / early cross as Blush is just one of many versions in that breeding program. If you read the article I linked to, you will see that Blush and others bred by Fred Hempel are crosses including Black Cherry and Speckled Roman.
I would go with that since Black Cherry was on the envelope, as it is too coincidental that it was labeled Black Cherry and not have something to do with Hempel's program ... IMO it's may be the clue to feel more confident. It may have originally stated Black Cherry X (Speckled Roman?) or something like that.
seysonn hypothesis:
REAL LEAVES: ... What is your opinion about my hypothesis ?
That the answer is superficial! Not necessarily your hypothesis, but rather, related to the surface morphology of the leaf.
My understanding is that PL is a recessive trait compared to "Regular Leaf" and both leave types are the real McCoy when it comes to tomato leaves, my condolences Mr. and Mrs. Tomato for whoever gave it some of them the confusing name "potato leaf type" ;-)
Different leaves will likely do better with different pests. The larger, more uninterrupted the surface, for example, the more it could be fun for leaf miners if the thickness is ok, and ditto other pests in their preferred situations.
You'd need to do a randomized experiment for that if you want to determine any correlation. Other leaves might provide better cover, more convenient access to sap suckers, or be thicker or thinner favoring or disfavoring certain pests.
I realize your are talking about mold, and not pests and there are two thoughts ... if pests damage the leaves, there are more entry points for microbes, and second, serrated leaves are more open and airy so it really comes as no surprise that a healthy PL plant would have less air flow under a larger surface area which is a habit for mold, if you grow in a humid environment.
So I don't believe the "what is in the leaf" has anything immediately demonstrable to do with it since the explanations I would consider more likely are simply pests and diseases, taken as a whole, favorite environments. Were the leaves rugose, or not, etc. are all considerations much more important than any perceived chemistry from a miniscule gene change. Point is if you cross a PL with a serrated leaf I believe you get the serrated leaf predominating and your theory if taken "in the leaf" to mean composition, probably has no basis, but a literature survey would be needed to research the question better. Other growing conditions might favor the potato leaf just as yours might disfavor it. Plant genetics is all about filling every niche.
Hope that helps, and it is *not* time to hang up PL heirlooms!
PC, in a fantasy about crossing a PL tomato to get a potatillo plant ⦠red potato shaped fruits in green lantern wrappers, and no grafting ;-)
Tom,
I am also growing one JBT, I purchase the plant from nursery.
I like the fruit color and consistency. It is a tasty brown tomato (NOT black ! ). However, it produced sparingly. Maybe about a dozen all season. Probably would've produced more had I planted in in ground instead of in the pot. But I did not have the space for it. It has 4 more fruits right now about the full size. I will have to pick and bring those in.
So, anyway, I will grow it again.
Set sonny this is my second year with JBT and it didn't produce well. It did give me a lot the first year. Both times I grew it in a twenty gallon container but different locations. I had some disease issues this year. But it's also not on my list for next year.
Hi Sharon,
Out of about 30 plants I had 4 in pots. But those were the ones I planted out not so early. They have done pretty well and are going at this moment.
I used my 5-1-1 potting mix, fortified with slow release fertilizer with Calcium and continued supplementing by water soluble fert at about 1/3 strength once a week.
About Bubble wrap:
I make cages ( about 10" dia) from rabbit fence wire ( 24" tall) and wrap it with bubble rap. THE BIGGER TH BUBBLES, THE BETTER.
It works similar to WOW , in the way that it work like a green house (solar heat trap ), protects from wind chill effect (air bubbles work as insulator), reduce cooling rate at night. (especially if you cover the top). It is easy to make and inexpensive and versatile.
WOW is claimed to store heat in the water, in the pockets and supposedly release it at night. But as a mechanical engineer, specialized in heat/mass transfer I do not think that is significant. To me it is the greenhouse effect, heating the soil. insulating and wind protection features that are useful. If any heat was stored in the water, most of it will be lost from the outer exposure in a very short time. In a way, the water pockets prevent most of solar heat reaching the soil.!! I rather heat the soil than water. I am not saying that it is useless but I believe its benefits have been over blown. JMO.
Hi seysonn, my concern with using WOW's was filling it with water and not collapsing in on the plant. I'm thinking that the bubble wrap could work with the grow bags. I'm thinking of starting more mid-May because anything earlier here could be way too risky. It seems like an easy and viable option to get a bit of a head start, assuming my transplants are hardened off and sturdy. Something to think about.
Hi Seysonn!
You only need 10 varieties of 50 seeds each. But if you can only send 5 varieties of 2 packs each, that is fine, and I will send you 10 packs back. I know you only wanted 5 back, but I want to be fair to you. :)
Most of us are "backyard" gardeners, but we have an obsession with collecting varieties to try out. I usually have about 6 varieties that I love to grow each year, then add in about 20 more untried. Then there are usually one or two that I really liked for my growing area, and I add them to the must-grow list, and so on each year, with some dropping out along the way for better replacements. I'm only telling you this because I don't want you thinking we are big farmers swapping lol. I have about 1500 or so varieties, and I grow anywhere from 27 to 100 plants each year, depending on where I can garden (I don't have enough sun in my yard, darn trees lol.)
In any case, I am thrilled to have you join us!
Andrea
The parents of Big Zac have not passed away. Big Zac F1 can be purchased at Totally Tomatoes. Check their online catalog. I believe the crosses are being made in Japan though I am not certain. Growers have been growing seeds from the original cross, F1 Big Zac, and are now out to F8 and F9. The new world record, 8.41 pounds was set by Dan MacCoy in Minnesota using some of these seeds. Minnie Zaccaria now has a new seed named ZacZilla which is a triple cross that has been given to the giant tomato growing community to see how they do with it this next year. Marv
seysonn, I have to agree that given a choice between Cherokee Purple and Big Zac with standard growing methods, CP will be more fun, more flavorful and more productive than my BZ experience with whatever I do here.
I'm not abandoning the BZ variety though since there is something cool about knowing what people have done with it. Just, not every season.
As for the "hybrid" situation I've previously expressed my opinion about the fine line between a cross and hybrid in the commercial seed business, and at this point it really doesn't seem to matter since the OPs are racking up the records. Though not a BZ groupie, the excitement can be fun and contagious of some of the other members who have had fun with it.
That said, I think Cherokee Purple has potential for giant tomatoes and maybe someone can send one to Marv (Thanks for reminding us that the missing "parent" who I call lovingly "Elvis" was allegedly resurrected from the beyond) who no doubt would show the world its first 5 pounder if he didn't want to grow them to eat. Both CP plants I started from seed in early August produced a very large "terminal" fused blossom as a premier into flowering. Terminal is in quotes because these are thick stems that sort of both grew up in a triple thick stem, so I don't know what the scientific word is for having a three lane hot wheels track going up in the main stem from the get go, with a remarkable fused blossom pit stop in the middle lane ;-) Twice for twice.
PC
Thank you all...
most of the information shared has answered my question!
It bothers me when your opinions are not factual but wrong.
Opinion is "opinion" . does not have to be "factual". And I don't claim mine are factual.
yet you never show any interest in changing your "opinion" or in learning about why your "opinion" may be wrong. This no matter how much information is provided to you. All you do is spout your opinion and then argue with anyone who differs with your opinion.
That is arrogance on your part to speak so authoritatively to claim that YOU have the right answers and information. and therefore I (or others) have to change my/their opinion. If you go your way, there will be no body to ARGUE with. You do participate voluteerly in argument to prove that you are right. I just express my opinion, which obviously I believe there is validity to them until proven wrong. So then it is more on your part to prove me wrong rather than just what you think.
And try FINALLY to learn the meaning of "FORUM".
Opinions expressed in the forum belongs to those who express them.
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BTW: I have learned few thing from both of you on this forum and I respect your knowledge and expertise in certain areas. But I disagree with you on occasions. There is nothing personal about it.
Age wise I am about your age and education wise I have a few college degrees of my own and experience.