16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Tomato fruits can get sunburned (sunscald), especially when the temperatures are over 85F for a while. Different varieties respond differently, and optimally they would not be in killer sunshine. But completely shaded arguably might not be best either since some people say chlorophyll on green tomatoes, especially heirlooms persists a while to help make them sweeter by making more sugars. But unless you are seeing problems on your tomatoes, don't worry about it. People that have problems typically have denuded their plants in response to saving it from some blight, leaving naked fruits in hot sun.
The problem is the Sun is like a microwave oven and can heat up the surface more than the ambient temperature from simple air contact. So the surfaces of the tomatoes' surfaces can near 100 degrees even if the temp is 92F out, like here in Florida. If you don't have a problem, no need to fix it.
This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Fri, Aug 8, 14 at 18:05
"What I think we are looking at are adventitious white roots budding out of the stem due to the plant's being nutrient sucked and root expansion/infection in a nematode explosion in the pot's soil, and severe galling there."
"The severe galling is apparent in the lighter green colored roots in the foreground, that's just a veneer of algae coloring the white sick roots that are exposed, from the eroded soil on top showing the legume-pod-shaped root nodules."
Ahh! That makes sense!
Florida can start a second season in August, right? Can't see why you wouldn't try with a rooted stem. When tomatoes are healthy, they have impressed me with their resilience. But DAAAAMN, when they are not, it seems hopeless.
I have a 1/2 acre in California, near the central valley, but have all but given up growing veg in the ground. Earthboxes have renewed my zeal.
Florida can start a second season in August, right? Can't see why you wouldn't try with a rooted stem. When tomatoes are healthy, they have impressed me with their resilience. But DAAAAMN, when they are not, it seems hopeless.
Yes, it would be nice to start, inside, in July, so if these turn out disease free enough and like typical rooted suckers they are right on time. My zone is borderline Florida and challenging and frustrating as it goes back and forth. The Sun is somewhat better than San Diego for winter, but humid and more cloud cover, and vulnerable to arctic air which routinely reaches Georgia.
Unfortunately trees block my southern exposure during the key hours of midday in winter. They have the best conditions south of me, mid-state for winter sunshine.
Just finished scavenging 14 suckers and tips and put 12 in growing media and two in water for two I didn't have room for to watch anyway. They are somewhat dry and pale, but as you say resilient. The plant is now totally finished and the soil never dried out, if I'm thinking correctly about this, because the root system was shot and the humidity was probably being furnished by some breakdown duce to the nematodes and the fungi they host which are probably some of the unmentionables.
Anyway, the reason I am worried about trying to root them is once the nematodes start, I don't know whether the pathogens they carry would have gone systemic in the plant and it already be too late. I guess I'll find out. I really hate the prospect of potentially culturing sick plants though because in the house I just don't want to be spreading those sorts of spores around (or an errant nematode spawn that magically appears high up on the plant). Because then I'll be concerned about my seedlings getting sick.
I feel so sorry for my plant, the first time I ever named one (Charlie Buckets, a girl LOL) to have lost its last leg and then be butchered by me on its remaining growing tips. It is interesting to see how the plant protected the growing them to the end by somehow transporting nutrients from all the other leaves selectively to them as it crashed in a short time even though the root system wasn't furnishing the pressure from below. That's why I quoted and completely agree with your sentiment!
Good luck with the Earth Boxes, they are fabulous systems and I've made some generic models. The soil here is hopeless. Also the tomatoes are always greener on the other side of the state line, or so I think.
My Old German doesn't look like the rot on this picture. I did go to the F&Q. We drip irrigate, and water is not the problem( the rest of my tomatoes are beautiful ). I think it could be not enough calcium. It appears that the plant needs a great deal of it. Thanks for your responses, but I think that I won't plant this one again, Judy
Marianna and Yaqui have been very productive for me, with large blocky fruit, without much ber. I am growing in eartboxes, and they are supposed to be determinate, but Yaqui is pretty big plant, with no sign of letting up. Can't really vouch for taste, as I grew them specifically for a spicy sauce.
Dave,
Sorry I did not provide more info.
New gardener with plenty to learn.
Grew 4 varities this year, 4 or 5 plants each.
Similar conditions for all 4 varieties. San Marzano although producing some tomatoes (all green so far) the leaves are turning yellow and dying.
Cherokee Purple, Moskvich, and Brandywine all much healthier plants.
I am going to try San Marzano again next year, perhaps different location will make the difference.
I hope the SM blush soon. I have heard they taste very good.
Just One:
-- Has to be early. ( ~ 65 days)
-- To taste good ( not the best but good enough)
-- Good size tomato ( ~ 6 oz)
-- Compact plant (Det, under 3.5 ft)
SILETZ got it .
I Can plant 2 of them in place one HUGE indet. That is like hitting two birds with one stone.
I am growing other early ones too( Matina, Bloody Butcher, Stupice) but the have much smaller fruits ( ~ 1,5 - 2 oz), they are overly tall indets, hard to manage.
Market growers do not sell many varieties. I was in our FM today. Except for a yellow tomato all were red beefsteak type. On top of that, they don't tag the name of what they are selling, is it hybrid, heirloom ???. If you ask the person at the cash register you will hear " I Don't Know ".
Sorry to hear it is that way at your market. Policies are very different around here. For such a low population area we have a surprising number of long-established markets in our area and well-labeled, well-informed heirloom sales are quite popular.
Can't say what they may be like in the Dallas area but hopefully they are better than what you have experienced. Otherwise they serve little purpose. And from the link below it appears there are many of them, several with excellent reviews and at least a couple of them that specialize in heirloom varieties.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: Dallas area Farmer's Markets
I'm the D.C. suburbs, so we also tend to have big city type farmers markets. I find that if I ask whatever random person is helping me at my favorite vendor, they usually won't be able to tell me things like the variety of tomato. But there is usually someone there from the actual farm. If I ask that person, they will usually know. It's just a matter of getting the right person. :)
Angie (who will be leaving to visit her local farmers market shortly)
Five years and still going strong: Hurrah for Stupice!
I planted mine out about May 10, From a seedling I bought.
I got the first fruit around July 15. But then no ripe fruits till the end of July. But come August , it is ripening big time.
As I look at some pictures,they show fruits that are round . But mine are lobed. As Carolyn pointed out there are 4 version.
Anyway; Stpice is PROLIFIC indeed. with so many clusters. But the fruits growth and size are not consistent. I will post a picture tomorrow to show you what I mean.
Hurrah for Stupice!
I know this post is rather old, but I wanted to give everybody some peace of mind regarding this subject. I have seen this pop up on forum's and message-boards quite a lot without anyone giving the correct reason.
Which is:
- ) It's not something to worry about too much, because:
- ) There is an abundance of sugars being produced during the photosynthesis period (during the day). So the plant has too much energy.
Reasons could be that during the night the temperature is quite low, so the energy can't be optimally used to produce more roots.
You could try and give some shade to the tomatoplants. Or if you are an indoor grower, you could try to raise the night temperature.
Either way, it's not something to worry about too much and it will go away as soon as fruiting begins (when the plant is using a lot more energy.)
Hope that helps :)
Cherokee Chocolate was a single spontaneous mutation from the clear epidermis of CP to a yellow one.
The link below, post by Mulio ,gives the classification of some varieties based on gf allele analysis,
As for alternative explanations as to where CP came from, yes, there are several theories and many threads here and there that have suggested that Phillipines #2 was the source, seeds sent to the U of now I forget which one in the south that "escaped" from there, but also seeds sent to a researcher in Canada.
And no, the Phillippine one was not widely distributed in the US,
I know of no one who has suggested that CP came from the Crimea which many think the first so called Black ones originated from.
Craig has been in touch with John Green on more than one occasion and John can no longer locate the woman who gave him the seeds that the variety CP was named from.
I think I covered all your questions from your latest post above and it is a complicated story. The gf analyses are not complicated, pretty straight forward, and I have link after link referring to this situation, but no way can I include them all here, or take the time to fetch them from my faves to do so, but I think my brief answers do summarize the major points.
Carolyn
Here is a link that might be useful: gf genetics
Donna, thanks for your experience growing BZ. Since I'm assuming Carolyn would laugh me out of the forum if I sent her seeds for some grocery store tomato like this, if you want to play with this to grow I'd be glad to send you some nice seeds from it to compare with your black tomatoes. Can't beat the price ;-) If I were sure it were BZ or some non-heirloom I wouldn't want it, but since I never grew BZ before and it looked different (but not different enough) in a pile of what had the classic BZ look IMO. The seeds do seem to have had a thick green gel as the Black Crimean tomato. I'll grow it after all and see if it makes jagged longer zebra stripes like you normally see.
Carolyn, As you've said, maybe the professor from the U of Ark was a Cherokee. Sevierville is 550 miles from me, so if I ever get bored I'll go Cherokee (tomato) hunting, if in fact the mystery woman and her neighbor were from the area, which is a little detail omitted from the description.
That is a great study referenced in the link you kindly provided and I can only say you helped me beyond my dreams, so please know that I value your advice and am very excited to read your replies to me and everywhere else. My only wish is the study referenced had done more than apparently restrict research to specifically gf alleles, and had the resources to look at markers that could separate the varieties rather than the hypothesis of the single black gene. I don't know about you but to me there seems far more to this story and 5 "recent" spontaneous mutations doesn't smell right at all to me, and based on that argument I would think multiple gf alleles have been around much longer than to suddenly express this degree of divergence, unless something simpler would have happened to see it at the phenotype level. Don't worry, I'm going to read a copy of the original paper and get a more complete idea about their experiments and results.
You are one classy oracle. Thank you so much. I promise to hold off on Thomas Jefferson (the man) until my head starts splitting LOL, this thread will not be about him. BTW, I heard TJ hid his Cherokee ancestry among many other things ;-)
Really nutritional deficiencies are hard to predict and we don't know what is in your water (enough magnesium Mg?), but I would suggest you check your label for micronutrients in the fertilizer to be sure it contains at least iron and manganese (Mn). Potassium rate (elemental) should be double or triple nitrogen.
I would add some iron first and foremost, and if my water were soft a little epsom salt (Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate) from the pharmacy or grocery store.
Good luck.
Hi seysonn
Yes I thought so too regarding the leaves but I discovered this silvery residue only on one branch pretty high up. No residue anywhere else nor any damage from a slug as someone suggested. I haven't seen it again on this or any of my other tomato plants nor have I ever seen any signs of slugs. Who know LOL. Anyway my SFT is still giving me fruit. No more blossoms though I'm sad to report. Of the 18 varieties that I'm growing this year the SFT has lived up to its hype! I'd recommend it to anyone! Thanks for your response.
My SFT has stopped flowering. Right now she is raising her babies. :-) It shows new growth and probably will resume flowering after the current fruits have ripened . It lost lots of flowers during the recent heat wave. It did not like hot weather and kept wilting everyday even when fully watered.
I agree with Osagecounty,
I am also growing a yellow grape size that is the same.
Most cherries seem to have a wild vine growing habit. But I am growing one (from store bought heirloom) that is manageable. No ripe fruits yet but it is loaded under 4 ft height .
Tim, I call a rare variety one that there's no place to buy seeds and it doesnt show up on anyones trade list via Googling it or at a message site,
But there are two seed sources for it.
Looking forward to seeing your picture though,(smile)
Carolyn
Welcome, I'm new here too. If you want to try to cross the two varieties, go for it for fun. But breeding tomatoes to get a stable plant is not something you can do like this to get a new tomato in the first generation of the cross (your pollinated flowers' fruits' seeds.
When you breed a tomato like this from a hybrid and an open pollinated variety, you are usually looking to make something of a particular characteristic set. Because better boy is a hybrid, it won't breed true and you will get a motley crew of offspring exhibiting many traits which will not transfer the qualities of Better Boy, including the disease resistances. On the other hand the OP cherry will give another level of complexity when mixed in, giving you many different tomatoes. Since you will lose many of the good characteristics, you won't likely be happy with most of what you produce, but you will have tomato plants.
But ... if you have a lot of growing area, take good notes, and have a bunch of pathogens to inoculate your newly planted seeds from the cross, you can eliminate the plants that don't have the resistances you want (like using Round-up), and then you will need to grow the rest out and see about viability, yield, and finally taste and texture.
Now that you grew say 500 plants and ended up with one that was ok, but not really better than anything, you have to plant and select the best seeds in a similar fashion for several more generations, until your improved cultivar becomes stable ... that means it the seeds produce an open pollinated tomato you can count on being the same and definable.
Then you can pay $5000 and register it and sell it to get your money back ;-) if you have buyers who think it's great.
Otherwise, genetics like this is like playing the lottery. Maybe you'll get lucky, you never know ;-)
As to whether the cross is a good one, there are many criteria to judge that. But first, you need to ask what exactly you want to accomplish, otherwise it can be subjective, seat of the pants. But that can be great fun ... with benefits after years of dedication and obsession ;-) JMO
The link below will help you know how to make crosses and how long you need to make selections to get to a final stable selection. Start by looking at CULTURE in that link.
First, you have to have a goal.So what is your reason for wanting to cross Better Boy F1 with largeRed Cherry,which is OP. and note that small fruit is dominant to large fruit.
If you save the Seeds from Better Boy, the F2 seeds, and put out a lot of plants you probably won't get either of the parents back/
Let me use Big boy F1 as an example.One parent of that is Teddy Jones, a family OP heirloom from the midwest.I wanted to see if I could get it out, and at the time my mentor was Dr.Oved Shifriss who bred Big Boy F1. He said I could not get more than 80%of the TJ genes out/
Better Boy F1 also has one parent that is Teddy Jones and the analogy would be the same/
So first you need to have a goal, and with that goal in mind, then chose what parents might be the best to attain that goal.
Carolyn
Here is a link that might be useful: crossing/genetic segregation