hey.. its rouge ..

first.. lets start with getting you to quit calling them evergreens... there are evergreen perennials.. shrubs.. trees.. and conifers.. so when you call it evergreen.. you really arent saying much ...

second.. see link for broad overview of conifers ... and do understand. as trees .... they basically NEVER stop growing at some magical height .... its all about the ANNUAL GROWTH rate.. how fast it gets there.... and how fast it passes such.. most size est's are at 10 years ....on any given size ESTIMATE.. just presume at 20 .. it will be twice as big ... [which is another way of saying ... your life isnt going to be long enough to see a tree slow down .. IMHO]

third ... MOST conifers are full sun plants ... some 'getting by' in shade ....

yellow plants.. need full sun.. to yellow properly ... a yellow plant.. in too much shade.. usually becomes a green plant ...

and then.. well saying a given spot in your yard is shade.. means.. well.. nothing to any of us.. in terms of how a given plant might react there ... a start would be how much full sun.. what hours ... etc ...

many of the yellows are winter yellow.. and if the shade is from deciduous trees.. well MAYBE it will yellow in winter .. etc..

now.. did you find the gallery side of the forum.. you can spend the next cold winter month.. searching thru pix ... have fun ...

a pic of your area.. might help us.. plus defining such things as i mentioned above ....

i wouldnt have wasted all this time for anyone rogue.. so get cracking on the above.. MC and HNYear ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Pinus strobus 'Louie' will grow into a tree, just like it's species...

Ah my buddy and 'man about garden' KEN. For sure Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you.

10 years and within the dimensions described above is acceptable.

Of course it is difficult to quantify "shade". There is no direct sun during the *summer*....maybe bright shade?

(The picture below may give the impression of more sun than there really is as it was taken in the fall with surrounding trees sans leaves).

Thanks coniferjoy for that information. I guess I am showing my lack of knowledge re. all things conifer.

look at the link .... Juniperus communis 'Gold Cone' .. unless there is something wrong with it in your z5.. wherever that may be ...

i hope you have enough space.. to alow us to enable you more ..

check out the pix .. lets call it 15 MINI conifers .. you could fit anywhere ...

ken

first off.. my gold cone at 3 o'clock.. 10 years old or so ... never trimmed.. perfect form.. make your post disappear ...

{{gwi:326682}}

and the MINI's
{{gwi:211253}}

{{gwi:211254}}

and the monster cat ... those are full size conifers behind.. lol .... thats her black spaceship behind ...
{{gwi:211255}}

Here is a link that might be useful: link

my gold cone at 3 o'clock.. 10 years old or so ... never trimmed.. perfect form.. make your post disappear

Definitely true Ken...good pickup there.

However 'gold cone' is a full sun conifer :(.

(Btw, I love those pictures. It is nice to see garden photos showing more of the garden in total rather than the usual close-ups).

It seems that only the Picea sitchensis 'Bentham's Sunlight' can stand in a shady corner and will then still give you a fresh lime golden colour...

That looks like an impressive Spruce coniferjoy, much too large for the location I have in mind. I think will quickly close the door on considering a conifer, as I have described, for this spot.

You might look at Picea orientalis 'Silver Seedling'. I know Coenosium used to have it. Don't know if he still does. Gorgeous little spruce with light cream accents on the needles. Loves low light locations. In fact it requires them. And it would really brighten up that corner. It's a pretty slow grower so a fairly small specimen would probably last for many years in that location.

Just one unusual possibility.

http://www.buchholznursery.com/plant_page.html?id=d02e7

Mark

Rouge, it will take ages before the 'Bentham's Sunlight' will grow into a bigger tree.
The first and most difficult adventure is how to find it.
The second to create a good leader in it
The third to enjoy it's very nice colours...

Good luck!

Interesting suggestions Mark. Silver Seedling/Sulphur Flush look quite cool.

And thanks for that coniferjoy but it is my understanding that it will be near impossible to obtain 'Bentham's Sunlight'.

I did some web browsing looking for potential conifers for the shady location in question.

What about...

- Picea abies 'Perry's Golden'

- Abies koreana 'Aurea'

- Pinus parviflora 'Goldilocks'

- Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Confucius'

Rouge, you gave up to quick...
I bet some of our U.S. nurseriemen can help you with one.
Otherwise you can ask them or start another topic with this quiestion.

The others you mentioned will be as green as gras someday...

Hey, I've seen that corner before.

The gold Cham. obtusa tend to green up in the shade in my experience and blue may be a better option.

Cham. pisifera 'Baby Blue Ice'

The plant shown was a 1 gallon in about 2008.

tj

This post was edited by tsugajunkie on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 16:33

- Picea abies 'Perry's Golden' ===>>> very hard to grow IMHO

- Abies koreana 'Aurea' ===>>> depends on which z5 you are in .. i forget ... TO DIE FOR in my z5... not sure the hot night z5er's can grow A.k. easily [dave in KC??]...

- Pinus parviflora 'Goldilocks' ==>> piece of carp .. near impossible to grow well ... dont want a newbie to pay $$$ and be discouraged ...

- Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Confucius' ===>>> green plant with yellow highlights.. which may or may not yellow well in your 'shade' ...

where are you??

ken

Lot's of Hemlock to choose from. All are good for that spot. 'Wood's Goldleaf' is a winner. 'Everitt Golden' not enough sun + is not very golden during winter according to Buchholz.

Link below.

Dax

Here is a link that might be useful: Tsuga cultivar Parade

Very helpful all of you...thank you. I will look at the suggestions and report back.
(Ken, I am in a moderate zone 5...in many ways I bet more like a zone 6 (Ontario Canada)).

If I do go with Abies koreana 'Aurea' and it is in a too shady location will this just result in less/no yellow colour but the tree will still grow?

This post was edited by rouge21 on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 14:36

If Abies korerana 'Aurea' would be a good one for that spot, I would mention it, but I didn't.
It will grow, but it's colour will not be much differend from it's species.
All Abies species and cultivars like to grow in full sun...

Edwin, you are a conifer god but I can't say I really agree with your piece of advice "all" Abies species and cultivars like to grow in full sun. In fact I'd reverse it and say that Abies can "tolerate" full sun in many zones in the US.

I found that most of my Abies species and cultivars grow best in part sun and would do poorly in full sun (by definition 8+ hours). The Abies genus is also home to several shade tolerant species, which several other coniferous genus can't say the same.

Personally I like the 'Silver Seedling' suggestion. Conifer Kingdom has a few sizes but you have to be willing to spend a pretty penny for this one.

Maybe Picea glauca 'Goldilock'?

Ireena

Will, all Abies like to grow in full sun, just like they do in their natural enviroment.
If some U.S. zones are to hot for some, then you need to plant something else, otherwise you'll torture them.
Unfortunately conifers can't talk, otherwise they would yell out how bad they're feeling when they're planted at the wrong place...

I can tell from my own experiences that also Picea orientalis 'Silver Seedling' is a bad choice for a shady back corner, because it slowly will loose it's variegation.
This counts for all variegated conifers.

The same is for Picea glauca 'Goldilocks', which will get a green colour in it's second year.

If you're willing to buy a conifer from Brent Markus of Conifer Kingdom, you better ask him for a Picea sitchensis 'Bentham's Sunlight'.
I know he have some availlable...

I guess my point is that you put a blanket statement that all Abies like to grow in full sun. Perhaps true but it somewhat insinuates to the original poster that they shouldn't use any Abies in anything less than full sun. Forgive me if I misinterpreted.

You can use many Abies not only in light shade applications but also part shade applications and even in some cases full shade. Take Abies balsamea , which is native to northern Wisconsin, I've seen this plant growing happily in shaded areas. I believe the same is true for Abies lasiocarpa in northwest US and Canada.

it is noted.. that he is in canada ...

shipping.. import certs.. etc .. might easily double or triple his costs.. if in fact.. some US providers actually ship to canada ...

he needs a referral to whistling whatever.. isnt it Darren ???? dax.. you know who i mean ... and forgive me that i forget ...

and if dax gives you that info.. i would suggest you contact him.. and ask him his opinion ... of what he might actually have in stock ...

i know of no other providers in canada ... offhand ... i mean really .... if they dont hang out in GW.. they dont exist.. lol ...

ken

ps: when you drop dax's name .. no one ever says.. which one.. lol ... [and if you do.. not unlike dropping my name.. they will barely double the price.. lol ..]

Ken, I have contacted "whistling" regarding availability of a few of the suggested plants mentioned in this thread (including 'Bentham's Sunlight'). I am sure I will hear back shortly as Darren has provided me with prompt, detailed feedback on other inquiries.

rouge - if you have that sandy loam lake bed soil found in SW Ontario, you might try and find chamaecyparis lawsoniana Treasure Island. Grows really slow and has an appealing yellow green color with a tight conical habit. I have a friend near Dresden that has some lawsoniana's doing well.

Marshall

Marshall, the 'Treasure Island' is neither a good one, it also will loose it's variegation after a while and will get damaged by heavy snow...
'Treasure Island' is a juvenile form of the well known 'Ellwoodii' which does have a weaker branch structure in comparison with adult leaved lawson's...

mrgpag thanks for the suggestion but we are not in the area you describe but rather we are in a clay situation (although the garden in question is a raised one with excellent soil amendments).

For the moment let's say I relax the restriction that the conifer in question must have striking needle colour (as it appears that this is hard to maintain in a shady aspect). And instead I ask for interesting foliage (cone and or needles) what do you like for a green conifer in shade which will attain maximum dimensions of say 6 feet by 4 feet.

Perhaps Will or Bob can chime in as to the age and shaded condition of this 'Silver Seedling'. I don't want to assume but it looks 15+ years and quite shaded with either an east or north exposure.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bob's SS

I agree it would be good to hear from Bob. I know when he was selling the 'Silver Seedling', his description said he had to keep his in heavy shade against a wall if I remember correctly, to keep it from burning. And his always had great variegation on the tips.