Farmer John,

I love this sunset zone! I'm still getting tomatoes, blossoms, and fruit set on hybrids I planted last spring!

I remember from your blog that we had a hornworm infestation about the same time. They left my hybrids alone and went for the solitary heirloom...which I saved, only to transplant later and have something climb the cage and nip off the vines 4 feet from the ground. Grrr!

I'll let the hybrids go when the first frost arrives since it looks like I'll have Home Depot Early Girls to fill that void. I also have several cool-tolerant, early determinate varieties in various stages of being hardened off.

Rubbermaid is my new best friend. The large translucent storage boxes make great portable cold frames now, and will be transformed to earthtainers come March. With a quart of paint they'll be lovely, color co-ordinated planters.

I started Stupice and Bloody Butcher from seed at the time I brought the Early Girl home. I hope their protected south wall microclimate will keep them happy, but I'm prepared to move their containers if we have a real cold snap.

They formed their first blossom clusters this week, but as of today there was only one flower, on the Bloody Butcher. I can't wait to see who fruits first!

I love gardening in the desert!

Update on my high-desert winter tomato experiment:

The first blossom on the Stupice opened only just today. Meanwhile, the Butcher has set fruit, (!!!) and, as of this morning, opened a second blossom.

For the record it has been unseasonably warm here, with nightime lows in the 39-42 F range and the daytime highs of 80 in the sun on the sheltered south side of the house. We have a cold front on its way now so we'll see if the Butcher can hold on to its fruit!

Help.

I didn't want to start a fresh thread (cause digdirt would just link me to this one :) ) even though the discussion drifted away from the original post.

Azruss originally discussed a second planting in the desert for a fall crop. I guess it's common in some desert areas for fresh seedlings to hit the nurseries in August. That won't work in this part of them Mojave. It's cold by mid-October. Vegas-like, Sunset zone 11, growing season mid-April to mid-October. I lost 17 plants that went outside in March to April frosts.

I also just accidentally started 50 Cherokee Purple seedlings. I was saving the seed. I got all the muck out of the fermentation and rinsed them clean with water. Got distracted, forgot about them, and they all sprouted a couple days later (in the water!). So I put them in starting mix and they seem happy. They have been taking 8 hours of 85 - 90 degree sunshine like little champs. Thank goodness for this "cool" weather that's been lingering for a couple weeks since they popped up.

Brutal heat is just around the corner, lasts for two and a half months and I am about to plant seedlings. I'm foolishly hopeful. Last year I planted a bunch that never germinated. Much later after draining the pool a stray popped up in the ground where my seed trays were -- about this time of year. I moved it to the tomato garden and it grew slow and steady through the heat of summer. It never produced, but I took terrible care of it.

So it looks like I'm planting tomatoes in June in the desert. I have a bunch so I will try several different ideas. Do you have any I should consider? My primary garden, which unfortunately faces west, is set up with shade cloth and has room for half of the plants.

I'm glad this thread got resurrected as it was an interesting read. I'm glad to see starting late here isn't totally crazy cause that's what I did this year and last.

Last year, I started really late and I think I planted tomato plants from the nursery in June or July. They got really badly attacked by hornworms (didn't know what a hornworm was at the time) but kept on kicking and all of them produced to varying degrees. The patio tomato was last to get attacked by the hornworms and was a really good producer even in the heat. I think the large, copius leaves on that plant kept parts of it shaded. At the end, they all looked like sticks without much leaves but were still producing some fruit really late into the season and I had given up on them already. From 3 plants, I had enough tomatoes to add to our salads for the season. They kicked back up in the fall and though they looked bad from the hornworm damage, but they produced a decent amount of fruit for their size and lack of leaves.

So, this year, I planted my plants in April and they have set some fruit though I wish they would grow larger. They did loose a lot of blossoms though. I just bought 3 more plants and I will see what they do. I did spray with BT this year as I don't want a repeat of last year. I'm hoping they will produce when it cools a bit.

I'm also very interested in any desert tomato growing tips.

Next year, I'm going to try to get an early start from seed. Do they need a grow light to sprout in the winter or early spring in zone 10 or can I start them in a sunny bay window? That's how I start all my other seeds but haven't tried in the winter.

Hi mojavebob,

I'm still experimenting with what works and what doesn't. I just set out several new seedlings and will set out some others in mid-July. Unfortunately your fall growing season is quite short. We get at least another month in the Sonoran Desert. I have learned that some cherry varieties do well in the summer heat--Black Cherry and Gardener's Delight, for example--if the birds don't get them first. Birds are harder to fight than the heat, and when no ripe or semi-ripe tomatoes are available, they'll go right ahead and hollow out green, unripe ones. They are after the seeds, not water. I'll plan to rig a set-up with bird netting next year.

I assume that you're planting in ground, which is good because the roots will stay cooler. You already have a shade cloth set up, so use that to minimize sun damage to the foliage and to reduce heat. Carla, who posts here as sautesmom and lives in Sacramento, recommends misting the plants with the hose in the morning to help cool them; morning, because the moisture on the foliage will wick off and dry during the day, minimizing the risk of foliage disease. Keep your plants evenly watered, and hopefully your Cherokee Purples will set some fruit for you in late August.

If you are using containers, you must take extra care to insulate them and try to keep the roots as cool as possible. I have started insulating the outside of my containers with 3/4 inch styrofoam. It's a pain, but it dramatically reduces soil temps. Let's see how it works; I am observing some growth.

Good luck. Let us know how it works out, please.

Russ

ania_ca, your sunny bay window might work... it's worth a try. Keep in mind though that winter daylight hours are much shorter and might not provide enough light anyway.

Here's a link to a grow light system that I purchased and I've been quite satisfied with it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jump Start T5 Grow Light System

Hey Russ,

I feel like I know ya. All my googling for help leads to posts of yours. :)

I am interested in how Super Sioux did for you. It seems to have the highest "heat set rating" of the OP tomatoes I have been searching out.

Unfortunately, this place and the world of heirlooms opened up to me after I had started my typical run of the mill generic hybrids. This is my second year in the desert. Growing in LA and Orange County was a dream I never appreciated enough. Instant tomatoes. Just add water. Those days are gone. I never researched the topic in the past because all I needed was Home Depot to grow beautiful tomatoes.

Now I'm obsessed. All those years of plucking plump juicy ones from my backyard spoiled me. I want to figure it out and get that back. I may end up lining 42" deep trenches with pond liner and install deep reservoir aeroponic fog irrigation, set the plants above the trenches mounted in thick styrofoam sheets staked down by concrete reinforcing wire fences that double as cages and with thermostatically controlled mist, fans and shade covers overhead. :)

But not just yet. There has to be an easier way.

I think I will continue to start a few more seeds and see what happens this fall. Goose Creek is in the mail (thank you Ray -- so much), and I have some Gardener's Delight. Other than that and the Cherokee Purples, I'm set, but interested in something real real early that I could get my hands on real real fast. Any thoughts? I have a couple dozen 3 gallon containers that might work for fast tough dwarf plants. God help me. I think I have a new addiction.

Bob,

I feel your pain. This is my third summer in the desert, transplanted also from Los Angeles. I am not an expert on desert tomato farming by far, but I'm a steady experimenter and student and I share what I learn here. I get better at this each year, so my efforts must be paying off.

Super Sioux. Better described as Super Sux. I was SO disappointed. It was fairly productive but without flavor and very crack prone. It wasn't any better cooked. Nor was it particularly heat tolerant--neither of the two plants has produced a single new tomato since our 100 degree stretch in early May. I've pulled one already, and the other one might leave the ground today. Gardener's Delight and Black Cherry are still going, and Stupice is struggling but still producing here and there.

I am posting a link to Carla's list of varieties that do well for her in the 105 degree days of Sacramento. Scroll down the page about 3/4 of the way. Don't poo-pooh all the hybrids; some of them are wonderfully tasty and heat tolerant.

Don't know any heat tolerant dwarfs that you could grow in a 3-gallon container. You might want to try Bloody Butcher or Stupice (about 55 - 60 DTM). Good luck, and keep posting results, please.

Russ in Marana, AZ

Here is a link that might be useful: Carla's List of Heat Tolerant Varieties

Also, Bob, if you don't have time to start seeds, give Laurel a call at Laurel's Heirloom Tomato Plants, link below. She is located near Torrance and has tons of varieties of plants. Highly recommended by yours truly. Her website is wonderful. If your first frost is in mid-October, you need to get your plants into the ground fairly soon.

Here is a link that might be useful: Laurel's

Russ: HAHAHA Super Sux, too funny. I was also very disappointed the one (1) time I tried Super Sioux (And regular Sioux, too), you've found the perfect name. Just like Delicious is NOT!

Anyway, I checked out what Laurel's still has available in plants, and the ones that MIGHT work for those hoping to get a crop in the desert, and which also in my opinion are yummy tomatoes, are:

Big Beef
Boondocks (one of my favs!!)
Cherokee Chocolate
Eva Purple Ball
Kellogg's Breakfast
Marianna's Peace
Stupice and

any of the cherries.

Carla in Sac

Carla, HAHA back! I didn't think it was so funny when I took a bite of my first ripe, red Super Sioux--worse than Super Market, really. I was actually a bit angry at all the heat-tolerant, delicious hype about it. Whose seed descriptions can you trust?

I think it's too late here for seedlings from Laurel's. Your "list" is my main guide for next season. Boondocks and Cherokee Chocolate seeds are on the way. I already have Mexico, Manalucie, Peron, Heidi, Big Beef, Brandy Boy, Burgundy Traveler and Stupice seeds. I'm going to also try Gary'O Sena and Dora, which have been reported by respected folks as having heat set qualities AND flavor. Add to that a few determinates that will be finished and dead by June, and my 2010 learning venture is taking shape. Could change a thousand times between now and next February. I have thought of treating EVERYTHING as determinate, pulling the whole garden on June 30 every year and summering at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market. Thanks for the great posts.

great thread, this is our first spring/summer growing tomatoes in the desert and have had great success so far. sorry i haven't made it over to the desert gardening forums yet. being an amateur i'd rather collect some notes before posting too much informative advice. i've posted several pics of our tomato harvest in the main forum, but if you want a general idea of our gardening effort i have a few pics up on the flickr acccount.

we've kept some notes regarding planting times harvest times etc... and could share those if anyone is interested. our garden truly exceeded our expectations this year growing from seed. 9 plants and about 40 lb. tomatoes so far. a few of these are determinate varieties so we'll be pulling them soon. i might try to coax an indeterminate plant through, but am thinking about startin over for the fall season.

regarding the birds, we have a problem with curved bill thrashers here. after a recommendation we got a birdbath and have to agree they like water, but also love tomatoes. they snuck into our beds and got into the tomatoes even with abundant water available. a strong bird netting defense seems the best option so far. a small price to pay for organic heirloom homegrown tomatoes. the best thing about the birdbath was the huge increase in pollinators that visit. the bees loved it! and plenty of birds bathing etc. we take the stale water out every so often and water our plants, they seem to like it.

one oddity i'm wondering about. curved bill thrashers are not considered big seed eaters are they? i thought the long, sharp pointy beaks were more indicative of carnivores and smallish beaks for herbivores/seed eaters?? any tomatophile/ornitholigists here?? :)

thanks for a great topic here in the tomato forum azruss! smiles to our desert tomato growers here :)
rob

rob,
NICE photos! Congrats on a great harvest, and I can assure you that we desert tomato growers would love it if you'd share your notes. Where in Arizona are you?

I've had problems with all kinds of birds. I caught a dove perched on a cage pecking away at a half ripe half devoured tomato today. Cardinals like tomatoes too, as does every other bird that visits our back yard. I will figure out a way to use bird netting next year--it's too late to bother with it for this spring harvest.

I'm starting to think that coaxing an indeterminate through the summer here is a waste of time and water. I've already pulled several and replaced them with my high hopes for fall. I use lots of self watering containers, and the trick for me is keeping the soil temps down with insulation. It's a pain, but addicts do lots of painful things to support their habits!

So do tell, what varieties did you grow, what techniques did you use, when did you start and so on. I'm quite serious, and I am certain that other desert tomato growers would like to learn more about the keys to your success. Thanks for posting in this thread.

Russ in Marana, AZ

Rob, I second all Russ said and would appreciate the notes anytime you care to post them. My Yellow Pear is one of my most impressive plants, but hear the taste isn't so great.

Russ, I have blackbirds and doves that love my young plants but seem to avoid mature plants. I have 50 Italian Cypresses in the backyard, a nice windbreak, but they harbor at least fifty nesting pairs. My birds munch the tops off the little plants. I didn't have much of a harvest last year and the one productive plant was very close to the dog so it was safe. This year I have plants everywhere and wonder what the birds will do. So far so good.

Here' some advice I found that worked great keeping the birds off the small plants. I put three thin stakes around the plants (taller than them) and encircled the plants in fishing line. It can have reasonably big gaps. The birds don't see it and once they fly into it or get wing trapped they stay away. It worked and we had a few laughs watching the blackbirds in the fishing line. They tried to perch, but failed and finally gave up. I suspect it would work on a larger plant too. I've been using a stuffed animal as a scarecrow for the Cherokee Purple seedlings and so far the birds don't go near my little monkey. :)

The giant grasshoppers are another story. I fought one with a golf club for fifteen minutes today. They're scary fighters. I wasn't sure I would prevail for awhile. There's at least 10 more out there having dinner right now.

What about hand pollenation to help with fruit set in hot weather? Is that possible? How would that be done?

Okay Russ,

Here is my desert tomato growing report for June.

Laura's site has Super Sioux with the highest heat rating and praises the taste, Russ. That's what made me hopeful. But what's she supposed to say. Super Sux, don't buy this one? I'm disappointed in the news. I'm stubborn, so I'll probably try it for myself next year. It isn't just Laura who recommends it for hot and dry. Where did you two get your seed/plants? I'll use another source, hopefully find a better strain.

I'm disappointed to hear it has cracking issues. Cracking was a big problem last summer. I've experienced just a little cracking in other climates. Everything cracked here, huge gaping cracks. Crack resistance is something I'm more interested in than heat set ability. Maybe I will avoid the sux headaches.

Here's what I grew last year. The failure motivated me. Better Boy is my old faithful. Success growing them is probably why I never bothered to research tomato growing before and why I never knew anything about heirlooms.

Better Boy was thick and lush and never produced a single fruit.

Early Girl gave up less than two pounds of fruit that was badly cracked and didn't taste good.

A red cherry never set fruit.

Bush Goliath produced three big delicious tomatoes in late July, another four smaller ones and was the first plant to die.

Celebrity delivered two below average crops, one in mid to late July and another in October after being severely cut back in August.

I recommend Celebrity out here. I have 8 plants looking better than last year's.

As I already mentioned, I started the usual hybrid thing before learning about all the available heirloom varieties so I'll list my plants by what went in first.

I have a dozen Better Boys, looking much better, and setting fruit. Some big juicy ones getting close to coming indoors.

I have a dozen SS 100s, one is dying from Fusarium the rest are doing pretty good and I'll eat a handful of them today (and every day for awhile it seems).

I have a Big Boy, a Jet Star, and 3 SunGolds in another garden. They are big plants, a few trusses of Sungolds are ripening, the others are hopefully starting to set some fruit very soon, lots of blooms.

All of the above started from seed.

From Home Depot I added two Goliath indeterminate hybrids, one has a nice fruit set, the other not so much. One Porter's Dark Red Cherry hybrid, a very nice plant with lots of fruit on it. One struggling Juliet, one struggling Park's Whopper, 4 Husky Cherries, and 4 Ace Hybrids that also look to make a nice crop barring disaster in the next month.

After getting all this started before tax time, I got the heirloom bug due to being online too much. At a farmer's market I picked up.

Traveler -- small compared to others, just started growing good after a long delay, has a few fruit on it.

Yellow Pear -- if it was carnivorous I would be scared. This plant has what it takes, a tough beast, and I am trying to cross it with Traveler.

Three Champions -- More hybrids, but I remembered them being vigorous producers and they are not disappointing. Setting lots of fruit.

Beefsteak -- That's all they called it. It has the biggest fruit ripening on the property and also set during the heatwave. I will be saving seed (it's OP) and may have something here for all us desert dwellers. I asked the farmer what kind of beefsteak, and he said one that grows great out here and that he sold a ton of the fruit every year. They weren't ready to be picked yet though.

Once those were all planted late April, I had an online order arrive for the following live plants. Rose, Yellow Brandywine, Japanese Trifele, Black Prince, Great White, Wonder Light, Moskovich, Pruden's Purple, Eva Purple Ball, and Green Zebra. They came from a low desert grower in air rooted ellepots and all survived. Most of these went in earthtainers after a short hardening off the first week of May. Great White is the most impressive. Some are in for a real nasty summer, most are blooming, none have set fruit yet.

This was already too long, but several of these plants are involved in various experiments. I'll post about those some other time.

Oh yeah, I also have about 50 little Cherokee Purple seedlings.

mojavebob, the birds here are attacking the tomatoes, not the plants, although I do love your fish line trick.

I'll stand by my assessment of Super Sioux and wish you luck. I pulled the last one an hour ago. No fruitset whatsoever since early May--so much for heat tolerance. But it's really a semi-determinate anyway. Laurel does have plants to sell, thus the descriptions, although I have read of others who enjoy Super Sioux and its predecessor Sioux. Different soil, different weather, different flavor. I love Laurel, but you have to take her heatset ratings with a grain of salt. Examples: Stupice rates only 1 sun, but it is much more heat tolerant than Super Sioux, which rates 3 suns. Gardener's Delight gets only 1 sun but should have at least 2, if not 3. My Super Sioux seeds came from an exceptionally reliable source, Victory Seeds, and I wouldn't hesitate to order from them again.

I wish I had the space that you appear to have! My tiny back yard can host only so many.

Myself, I have nothing against hybrids that taste good. Momotaro is one that I'll continue to plant (setting it out early and treating it as a determinate--it does not like the desert), along with Brandy Boy. IMHO, Celebrity is best for fried green tomatoes (hi Nancy in Covina!) and I've never tried Better Boy. Cherokee Purple is my absolute favorite tomato. It's twin, Cherokee Chocolate, is said to be the more desert friendly of the two and will be in my tomato patch next year.

mojavebob:

I'm surprised to hear about Great White, because none of the whites do well for me, but that may be my nematodes, and maybe your soil doesn't have them. And sorry to say, Rose did even worse the 3 years I tried, which was so sad because the few I got were delicious. IMO Green Zebra is fantastic--for those who like eating raw lemons! It's one of the few tomatoes I have ever spit out, and I tried it two years running, because a lot of people love it. (but I like sweet tomatoes!)

Black Prince is a trooper, and did the best of all my black tomatoes, nice flavor too.

And Moskvich has been tied for my favorite tomato for 10 years running (with Jetsetter) Yay! I'm so glad you're trying it, let me know if you're a convert.

Carla in Sac

Russ,

I've seen Better Boy win a taste competition at the Santa Monica Farmers Market and Brandywine and some big ugly brown thing was represented. That was a few years ago and another reason I never bothered to learn about other tomatoes. I naively figured I was already growing the best. It makes me chuckle to think about it now.

My Celebrities tasted pretty darned good last year. Great? No. But better than any store had to offer and I am interested in production out here.

Here's where I got the online plants, it may be a good tip for hot weather.

www.tomatoheirlooms.com

If you took them up on the U Pick'em 3 and tried Moskvich with a couple others you might enhance your fall crop. At least the plants are coming from your exact conditions, albeit started indoors.

I used them because I was told some of their strains have been adapted to the Coachella Valley over a few years time. That's Russ's incandescent growth stopping Sunset Zone 13. I asked which strains, he said he would get back to me, I was too impatient and just ordered the plants. They were planted very late and are all small compared the rest, so we'll see how it goes. You also get 13 plants in a small 4"x18" box all tangled together. They are all a good 15 inches though. The roots are exposed in elle pots wrapped in plastic to stay moist. Weird, but they are all alive and kicking. They were so long, being rooted branches from large plants, that I hardened them off in Pringles cartons.

Carla, I'm a long way from harvesting a white tomato, it's the growth and vigor of the Great White that surpasses the others listed (could be an adapted strain). And it is so hairy it needs a shave. I'm going hope for a fall crop. I am excited for Moskvich too. It started flowering last week and looks like a very early plant, which I'm convinced is more important than heat tolerance.

Also Russ, my place is pretty standard middle class family neighborhood. Not big but very rectangular and I'm growing in odd places -- shade experiment, between the conifer experiment, south and north facing walls, 12 hour sun, 3 hour sun, morning sun, afternoon sun, bla bla. I already got the divorce so I don't have your issues. :)

I already got the divorce so I don't have your issues. :)
-------------------

Hysterical. If I had to choose between spouse and tomatoes... I don't want to think about that right now.

You've convinced me that maybe I should give Better Boy a try next year. Good lord how I miss the Santa Monica Farmers' Market--especially in summer--I used to go every single week! I want to move back to L.A. terribly but it's so outrageously expensive. I guess I could start buying lotto tickets....

Thanks for the seedling link, but I've already got seeds in for a late July planting. I might have a vew Moskvich seeds around somewhere, come to think about it.

mojavebob-

My hat's off to your enthusiasm for experimentation....my money is on Eva Purple Ball. I've got a tad bit more humidity here than you, but it is the variety that has handled the heat best here, and I've got a feeling it will perform for you there.

I had someone break up with me and tell me it really seemed like I loved the seeds more than him. I think 1. People are more important than plants 2. Your significant other needs to know that he or she comes first, no matter what, and that his or her feelings are on your radar. 3. An awesome crop of tomatoes eaten by yourself is, far and away, not as satisfying as you think it will be. 4. If you make your SO feel second best, or that you would ever think twice in a choice between ANYTHING and them, you should know that you're acting like a jerk and making your significant other miserable. That's the only way anyone can feel in that situation. 6. Gardening is not as much fun when you're heartbroken. 5. The easiest time to figure these things out is when you have lost the person you love and are alone with your plants.

We all joke about this, but seriously, I hope we all have our priorities straight.

Jessica, obviously something struck a nerve or two with you, and I'm sorry for that, but I suggest that you save sermonizing for another forum or for private email and perhaps lighten up a little bit here.

We do joke about it, and I think most of us do have our priorities in correct order, and it is a fact that some of us have partners who are not particularly supportive of our passions and hobbies. It's a two-way street and we handle it.

Does anyone have comments, questions, problems, successes with Desert Planting Strategy? Let's hear 'em.

Russ in Marana, AZ

My strategy ... They are against the east side of a block wall, some under a mesquite, for morning sun and afternoon shade. No-till gardening, just scattered soil sulfur and some ammonium phosphate on top of unimproved desert dirt and dug holes big enough for the root balls. Drip system with a lot of shredded tree branches piled on them for moisture control.

1 - Romas from Home Depot pots are starting to ripen, and thriving. They are also infested by quail :)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38617480@N07/3614575139/in/set-72157619569790452/

2 - Cuban Yellow from seed has fruit, but not changing much. It's way bigger than most photos show, so it might not be Cuban Yellow despite the label on the packet.

2 - 5 plants of several varieties planted in a compost heap under the mesquite (Matt's Wild Cherry, White Currant, Cuban, and Jellybean somethingorother) are thriving. Matt's are ripening, and the green dangly bits are all over the bushes.

3 - Two plants (Matt's wild cherry) got stuck in the main bed, in full sun, because it had room - they have set fruit all over.

4 - Coming soon, heirloom seeds from INDIA :0

PROBLEMS: Blossom end rot is a minor problem, but I've increased the water and that made it stop (I hope).

NOTE: It's been unusually cool this year, with very few days into the hundreds. tha tprobably has a lot to do with it.

Here is a link that might be useful: My Tomatoes in Phoenix

i've been keeping up with this thread, but haven't been able to respond due to hectic work schedule lately. heres a few replies/updates.

russ said:
"NICE photos! Congrats on a great harvest, and I can assure you that we desert tomato growers would love it if you'd share your notes. Where in Arizona are you?"

--thanks for the compliments russ. we're in chandler just SE of phoenix metro.

"I'm starting to think that coaxing an indeterminate through the summer here is a waste of time and water. I've already pulled several and replaced them with my high hopes for fall."

--we had to pull our purple cherokee already. luckily we got a few beauties from it :) well worth it! our indeterminates in the ground are slowing, but still have green tomatoes to ripen. the tomatoes are noticeably smaller, but still there. we plan on trying a couple of 'large red cherry' plants through to the fall season as an experiment. a fall planting from seed with new varieties is also in the planning stages. our determinates are winding down and almost done. we'll pull these soon. i was very impressed with our determinates and consider them a great desert garden addition. marglobe and campbells 1327 worked great for us from seed.

"I use lots of self watering containers, and the trick for me is keeping the soil temps down with insulation. It's a pain, but addicts do lots of painful things to support their habits!"

--we also have a couple of sweet 100s in pots that are almost in suspended animation now. not dead...but not growing. no new flowers, but everything is ripening ok, the fruits skins really toughening up now, but flavor is still great. the plants themselves still look ok, with no new growth. wondering if they'll survive, they're on the 'neglect' plan now ;)

"So do tell, what varieties did you grow, what techniques did you use, when did you start and so on. I'm quite serious, and I am certain that other desert tomato growers would like to learn more about the keys to your success. Thanks for posting in this thread. Russ in Marana, AZ"

in our raised beds we dug down about 18-24" plus about 6" topsoil/mulch. we amended 1/3 native soil, 1/3 compost, 1/3 cow manure. plus lots of leafy mulch on top to conserve water. we scrounged from whereever we could get it. we also have 6 chickens and an active compost pile that adds to the garden ;) marglobe, campbells 1327, yellow pear, and cherokee purple started from seed jan 15 and transplanted feb 23. planted into same plot following a succesful harvest of broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, radishes, and carrots. sweet 100s we planted from box store transplant on feb 13. into pots with kellogs container mix, with seaweed and fish emulsion fertilizers occasionally.

I'm with you on determinates for the desert. Several for fall harvest and definitely more of them next spring. Martino's Roma, Taxi, Rutgers VFA, Solar Set, Heatwave II, Bella Rosa, Cold Set and some others. Heartland has been pretty good, too. Supposed to be indeterminate, but sure doesn't behave that way.

I bet you if you could find a way to insulate your pots, the Sweet 100's might take off again. They cannot grow in hot soil. I had four or so last summer--pretty little 12" plants. They were still 12" in late September and then took off in October. Just sat there in the pots, drank water and did nothing else. This year, insulated, similar plants are actually growing.

I'm not sure I'm going to try to mollycoddle anything through the summer. If the Gardener's Delight and Black Cherry were in the same SWC, maybe I'd try to get both of them through. I need the space though for my fall experiments!

rob, how do you rate your marglobes and campbells 1327 on flavor and production?

Rob, could you name the maters in your picture? The pear and ss100 are obvious, but which are the others, thanks?

Anyone, how has Homestead and Sunmaster performed and tasted for you?

This thread has me watching the weather in all our various locations. Again today I have been blessed with excellent weather. Way up north in Sac it was considerably hotter than out here in the desert. We hit 91 early, looked like a cooker, and some clouds came in and kept it around 85 most of the day. If I can't get a great harvest out of this year, then I just don't know. But man they ripen so slowly.

Just a quick note, I will try to post more tomorrow. I am also in Marana, way farther west than Russ though. I am growing about 18 different kinds of tomatoes in a 4x16 bed, have shade cloth over them, at about 9 ft. high. They do get shade from a nearby tree in the afternoons. I am picking about a 8 inch paper plate full of tomatoes every other day. I have them on an irrigation set up, I water with one 2gph drippier at each plant, 4 times a day for 5 min. Not a lot of cracking right now. My best tomato so far taste wise Bradly, Slavia, Camp Joy, Pink Ping Pong, one unknown I think they are better boy, (thanks Mom for mixing up my seedlings), Sungold, and Brownberry. I have had lots of production from Nygous, taste is ok, but watery. I picked a 1 lb from a Marvel Stripe, it was very acidic though, I have lots more ripening on that plant though. I should have a ripe Momotaro any day now, along with some other unknowns. Again, thanks Mom. Don't ever have my mom help you with transplants you will never know what is what. Check out my pics here, You will have to copy and paste though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13673162@N00/

I planted 98 seeds last week, all new kinds, we will see.
Happy Gardening
Sammie K.

I love reading these posts and am so glad I'm not going crazy. You guys have calmed me down about my tomatoes. Firstly, I grew 65 plants in Reno last year before getting into med school, EVERYTHING came up, 33 varieties. You name it, I raised it, container and soil growing. Now I'm in Las Vegas (Henderson) going to med school (first year over) and set out my 4 Cherokee Purple Tomato plants in April. They are now 5 feet tall and every single blossom has fallen off. I have 32 Mexican Heirlooms growing from germinating seeds from a Trader Joe's tomato and 6 megablooms that just started this week. I have 12 foot high Sweet 100's and have gotten around 50 tomatoes off of it so far. Now with these 105 degree days, everything just seems to be lying there dormant. My pole beans continue to produce but all of my tomatoes are like -- what? heat? we'll wait. I bought 5 Mortgage lifters, put them out, two have died and three are hanging on by a thread. So it's been different for me this season. Even Mr. Stripey has not done anything but vine out -- he's about 8 feet tall now. My mom and dad are already harvesting gigantic tomatoes in Dallas that we planted over spring break. Me? I'm sitting here with some cherries but none of the wonderful tomatoes I've planted and nurtured along. Maybe after reading this forum I'll be still harvesting into December. Thanks for all the knowledge. It's been frustrating!

OK...Update on my garden...I'm tapping the blossoms daily when I am out in the garden and have noticed a definite increase in fruitset. It was 107 here yesterday so we will see if it continues.

My cherokee purple is still being stubborn and dropping blossoms though. It has huge tomatoes growing on it that set in May, but has only set one since then. Oh well.

Ania

sorry for the recent lull in my replies here.
the tomatoes in the garden are definitely taking a beating from the heat. the determinates are definitely finishing up, i'll pull those soon. the indeterminates are looking so bad i'm not sure they'd make it through...but the monsoon may perk them up? i still want to try one through the summer just to experiment. that darn yellow pear is doing the best and still out of control with new fruit even! i'm putting in shade cloth that will shade the whole day now. full sun from 9-1 is too much. i need to get some new pics up of the tomato garden itself in it's summer misery ;)

in non-tomato news...things are doing pretty good.
the sweet peppers are doing good with some varieties better than others. the gypsy peppers are doing great, bells are doing ok, but getting sunburned and a bit of blossom end rot on those...hopefully the shade cloth fixes the sunburn. the serranos and jalapenos are in full force. eggplants have bee doing good since the beginning of june, really perking up with the heat.

we just got our first sweet corn last week. the first ears which we hand pollinated were perfect, but today the ears where we just shook the stalk weren't very filled in. a few early pumpkins for our chickens were on the small side, the plant itself is done. i think it cooked... along with a single sugar baby watermelon which had one fruit about as big as a softball which we ate today. a couple of cantaloupes on the small side too, but plants are doing ok. a couple of spaghetti squash are doing good with decent fruit. getting ready to replant sweet corn with mexican corn, and start some squash. ok...i'm rambling on here ;)

-russ said: "rob, how do you rate your marglobes and campbells 1327 on flavor and production?"

russ, the marglobes were pound for pound the best producers. they were great slicing toms and one almost weighed a pound. they also had the best flavor and texture. the skins were not tough at all, some had a few splits but no problems otherwise. overall the best of our varieties imo.
big marglobe

the campbells were prolific (great numbers) but not very much bigger than our large red cherries or as tasty compared to the marglobe, but these were still very good!

not sure why they were smaller than i expected. they had some leaf curl from water stress though so maybe that was a factor? also we did have some mixups in our peat pots early on, but given the characteristics i think i figured it out ok. i could be wrong though. ;) we had two mystery varieties also...ah the trials and tribulations of gardening. despite our mixups, nature is forgiving so far and the effort is well worth it ;)

--mojavebob said "Rob, could you name the maters in your picture? The pear and ss100 are obvious, but which are the others, thanks?"

hey bob, marglobes are the biggest ones. cherokee purples at 9 o'clock , campbells 1327 and large red cherries mixed together at 10 and 1 o'clock... the campbells are the larger ones. mystery variety at 6-7 o'clock, roma i'm guessing but much better than any roma i've had before! yellow pear and sweet 100s are the obvious ones :)

hey sammie,
great tomatoes! i think more shadecloth would be good here in my garden. good looking plants there. i also like the january pics with the shop lights keeping them warm. and the huge payoff in march! looks like desert tomato gardening can work year round witht the right dedication. :)

Check out a shade cloth called Aluminet. I will be buying some 40% density for next year's garden.

Still getting a few new fruits from Gardener's Delight, Black Cherry and Hawaiian Tropic but everything else is shutting down. I wish HT had great flavor, but alas it does not. Terrific fried green tomatoes, however. Just harvested the last of the Heartland and Homesteads--Heartlands taste great when allowed to fully ripen; Homestead was surprisingly good. There are a few Bella Rosas starting to ripen--will report on the flavor later. The few Solar Set tomatoes -all- developed BER.

The birds have ceased pecking everything, amazingly and thankfully.

Yesterday's monsoon winds toppled two earthboxes and cages.

That's the east Marana, AZ update for now. Sammie's west Marana tomato garden takes the desert prize this year, IMO. Good work kiddo!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Aluminet Shade Cloth

I have a covered patio about 50' long in the backyard outside the living and family room sliding glass doors. It has raised beds in front of it before the lawn. These are the most obvious places to plant anything here. Unfortunately they face west, don't get sun until noon, and then get fried all day with the worst of the high heat. I'm at 106 and 9% humidity right now.

Being frugal, broke and trying to keep costs down, I bought a burlap sheet for shade cloth. Home Depot had 12'X40' sheets for $25. I cut it in half to make 20 foot sections to cover most of the beds and have an opening where the steps are. I draped it down to the grass in front of the tomatoes. I can roll it up and secure it to the roof, or I can pull it behind the tomatoes to give them full sun. It's a little cheesy but the kids think it's a cool fort.

Anyway today, I sprayed it with water while hosing off the patio and a delightful cool breeze rushed through. It's like a giant, temporary outdoor swamp cooler. I dropped the temp at least 15 degrees over the tomatoes and it lasted a good 20 minutes. I'm going to hook up some microtubing with misters and leave them on the burlap when the sun is blazing. It will be 115 here soon enough. I just noticed I'm in the same Sunset zone as Death Valley. You too Sherruns. ;)

Russ, thanks for the report. I want to try Homestead and there's several strains, but you now have me interested in Heatwave.

Heatwave is on my must list for next spring. I had one plant (planted late) with just a few tomatoes, but they were really tasty. Next year they'll be in SWC's. I'm hoping for better harvests.

hey russ, aluminet looks a lot more durable than the cloth i picked up recently. although a bit more expensive it seems the better choice, i'm wondering how long till the cloth disintegrates?

also, a friend had a heatwave this year and recommended highly on taste. considering you can get these pretty early in the box stores sounds like a must try for next spring. for fall i'm not as worried about heat tolerance.

i also want to explore the short season cooler varieties in the winter here too. i think i better get going here soon ;)
rob

AMAZING!! I have three fairly new plants setting fruit, here in AZ, in July, in 100-degree heat!! I went outside a few minutes ago and discovered that two Cold Set plants and one Sheyenne have little quarter- to half-inch tomatoes on them! Perhaps there is something to be said for misting them in the morning and giving them a few good shakes during the day.

Just hooked up my misters and it's definitely helping my 5'tall Cherokee Purples survive the heat. Not expecting any more flowers on them any time soon, but at least the misting is keeping the temps down around 90 instead of the 105's we've been having the last few days in Vegas. Cool this morning and believe it or not, raining! We need a big rain but will have to settle for 1/2 inch here and there. Good luck to all you desert planters and strategizers!!

How we doin'?

It's 113 here at 5PM. The thermometer on my west facing patio reads 132. Hah! I have 25 tomato plants on the other side of that patio slab. I am bringing in a dozen slicers and a few dozen cherries every day right now. Not too pleased with the quality and the cracking of the larger fruit, but some are outstanding. I was canning this morning, so this is a good year. I check your various temps all the time and Vegas and Phoenix are just as rough, the other areas represented in this thread seem lovely in comparison. Tucson has been bad but not-quite-as-bad.

Porter's Dark Cherry is a trooper. A picture of health basking in the sun. Many SS100s are doing fine. One Sungold is holding up. The better Better Boys are looking sturdy and green with almost no yellowing. Celebrities are just hardy brutes. They look half dead and half growing and are the main weight of my harvest, very productive, tasted better a month ago, and producing better now. Eva Purple Ball and Pruden's Purple both look like they may survive for the fall. Champions are fading unfortunately, but they were good croppers for me. Goliath are fading. Moskvich is surprisingly green and growing, but never had a chance to set fruit before this high heat set in. I hope it makes it. Rose, Brandywine, Japanese Black Trifele, showing signs of stress. Yellow Pear and Traveler, which both looked good a short week ago, are losing foliage from the bottom up very rapidly.

It's 138 in my garage. I can sun dry cherry tomatoes outside in one day. So there.

Mojavebob:

CANNING at 113 degrees??? And I thought I was the tomato-obsessed one! When it's that hot, I pop them in the freezer for a bit, until the cooler temps come back. Unless you get free air conditioning?

You're a model of fortitude! And thanks for giving my favorite, Moskvich, a plug!

Carla in Sac

Carla, the AC runs almost 24-7 right now, canning or not. I have to run it when I leave town to keep the fish alive. I'm on a level payment plan, same reasonable price every month, and they debit or credit the difference annually. I got a credit both years so far. Hot water is solar thermal along with 780 watts of solar panels keeping things reasonable. Nobody ever sees my roof, so I have covered flat sections and south facing sections (without the solar goodies) with mylar blankets. Sshhh.

I'm hoping to give the late planted heirlooms a try, but four more weeks of this will probably cook everything. Moskvich interests me as much as any. How are your plants in Sac?

Carla, how's your summer crop? Please keep us heat dwellers updated!!

My tomatoes are still setting fruit - store-bought Roma plants, seed-started Matt's Wild Cherry and the White Currant

Matt's and WC are also planted in full sun, and although they are clearly stressed, they are blooming and setting fruit.

The ones that have been poor producers: Jellybean, Cream Paste. These will not be repeated.

NOTE: I have a lot of "sweat bees" that are capable of pollinating tomatoes. It's a wild desert species or several, that does "buzz pollenation".

Hey Lazygardens,

For a couple weeks I've been contemplating just growing cherries out here next year. They seem better suited to the conditions, and being new to heirlooms, there's plenty of variety for me to try. My Porter's Dark Cherry is a good sized cherry and the only plant setting fruit in this 110+ degree weather. Pretty amazing if you ask me, and pretty fruit with excellent taste. 2nd only to Traveler among my 25 varieties.

The picture doesn't do the deep pink color justice. It's the blocky one in the center below, a few more top right

There's a little mystery over this plant, btw. But if I can grow it than any of you desert dwellers can. I got it from Home Depot/Bonnie labeled Porter's Dark Cherry Hybrid. Tomatofest has an OP version, and pictures of simply Porter look like possibly the same plant. I have saved seed and I halfway suspect it's open pollinated and just good old Porter renamed for marketing purposes.

I do have seeds for over 20+ slicers I really want to try. I dunno. It sure is different in this weather. I actually hate going into my Celebrity/Ace patch and digging out the blushed, badly cracked, often insect munched fruit every day. I've turned off their water supply, and just want to clean out that garden. Yet, I rather enjoy perusing the cherry plants that are still producing nice looking fruit (but except for Porter's not setting new at this point). I know if I'd put in 60 cherries (instead of 18) I would have had great production and not so much fruit set frustration, insect damage, cracking, BER, etc. I have a pack of Jellybeans, btw. I'll avoid them. Send them to someone up north who's interested.

So those of you trying different approaches to a Fall crop, how goes it?

The 50 Cherokee Purples started in early June and planted in early July haven't grown enough to produce. I guess the heat was too much for them to get into a major growth phase. I've lost over half of them and the others are basically weeds to me. I also started clippings from my Sungolds and planted them for the Fall, but they too aren't gaining any size to speak of. That's the bad news.

The good news is that Porter's has never stopped and looks to keep producing through Fall. In addition to that, some cooler nights have brought a new bloom to Goliath Hybrid, Champion, Better Boy, Jet Star, Moskvich, Eva Purple Ball, Pruden's Purple, Wonder Light, Red Beefsteak, Japanese Black Trifele, Arkansas Traveler and the surviving cherry plants. The Red Beefsteak (a Bonnie OP/Heirloom) has been growing like it's late Spring for a couple weeks right through 110 degree weather. It's now covered with flowers.

So it appears the best way for me to get a Fall crop is through nursing mature plants through the worst of it and not bothering with new plantings. That's a little disappointing because I was hoping to be able to use my largest garden for 40 determinates very early next spring, clear them out in early July and start another crop for the fall. Now it looks like plants that continue production are the only option for a fall crop here. That would leave my biggest garden empty for the fall.

Any desert growers having luck with seedlings for a fall crop.

PS. In my daily perusal of our various climates, Phoenix wins the award for most unrelenting heat.

Here is some interesting esoterica related to desert growing:

http://www.pnas.org/content/89/20/9794.full.pdf

According to this, spraying plants in arid regions with a solution of methanol (wood alcohol) reduces transpiration and improves growth.

Hmmmm That's an interesting printout, but it's from 1992. Nobody is doing it now, so there may have been other problems with the methanol applications.

The main problem I see is that you have to be close to the toxic range to see the effect.

***********
My new tomato plan is to plant some really short-season determinate paste or meaty medium sized varieties for the fall and spring preserving, and some indeterminate ones for the salad and pasta supply.

RESPONSE OF SOME CULTIVATED PLANTS TO METHANOL
Copyright 2003

The main problem I see is that you have to be close to the toxic range to see the effect.

To avoid possible confusion, "toxic" is with regard to the plant and not humans. In sunlight, the methanol is metabolized by the plant long before it has a chance to contaminate human food. My experiments indicate that the worst that can happen is that leaf edges or maybe entire young leaves die. I have never killed an entire plant with 50% methanol spray in full sunlight. You are supposed to determine the concentration that causes slight visible damage and then back off from that concentration by 10%.

I had a bed of coleus with drooping leaves because the bed hadn't been watered in a week. I sprayed several plants with 20% methanol in direct sunlight around noon and they perked up within 2 hours. Since then, I have been unable to duplicate those results, even with 50% methanol. There was no visible damage to the plants at 20% or 33%, and slight damage at 50%. These solutions were based on a stock solution of 30 g urea, 5 g urea phosphate plus 0.5 tsp Triton X-100 in 1 gal. water. I did not use glycine.