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noni_morrison

IS this really Melusine?

Noni Morrison
16 years ago

{{gwi:384806}}

From the pictures I thought it was pink with a dark pink center. This looks like a slightly stronger colored Rembrant, but it is just another of the green and red variations. I am quite disappointed if this is really it! I Have a whole zoo full of red/green strips and blotches and I think I like Giraffe the best of them!{{gwi:384809}}. Here is Giraff, Grandeur, and a just opening buf of melusine.

Comments (24)

  • haweha
    16 years ago

    {{gwi:17098}}

    This is my version which I presented earlier.
    I understand your concern/objection - but the coloring of hippeastrums varies according to the environmental conditions. Now I shall post and look at both pictures comparatingly, but I havbe little if any "hope" that I shal discover a principal difference.

  • haweha
    16 years ago

    although I would fully understand IF someone shouted out of full conviction "Different cultivars" I can not confirm that. Your Melusine appears too greenish and that diminuishes its performance. That is MY understanding of the problem.

    On the other hand your "Grandeur" shows off a terrific performance, the umbel with six flowers which did almost simultaneously open and deeply and impressively colored!

  • Noni Morrison
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thank you, Sir Hans! Actually Grandeur has improved a lot since opening, maybe the green will fade out on Melusine too.

  • jodik_gw
    16 years ago

    Your pictures are wonderful, Lizalily! I really think you captured your Melusine at the perfect angle! And the group shot is terrific! Those three varieties match nicely in shape and color, perfect for photography! Very nice!

    Sir Hans, that's a lovely rendition of Melusine! The colors of your flowers are fabulous! Nice photographic work!

    I have noticed, throughout this past bloom season, that several varieties have had slight color differences... there are variables that I'm sure are responsible for this... lighting and other environmental conditions must play a role, as Sir Hans indicates, and I notice that varieties vary slightly from grower to grower...

    I even noticed slight color differences in my Red Lions and Minervas... they were not all purchased at the same place.

    Anyway... all of the above photos are beautiful! Thank you for sharing!

  • haweha
    16 years ago

    It is obvious that the "Grandeur" presented this season differ a lot in color. Has ANYONE an old specimen (purchased in 2007 or earlier) of that cultivar in bloom - THIS SEASON - and could include a photo here?

    In fact this question was raised previously and it remained unsolved.

    Obviously true Grandeur:
    The STYLE is red (surprising, since the filaments are white!)
    in season 2007, by karylynn and Mariavahref>

    New version of Grandeur:
    Much darker, brownish red with green, without midrib; now the style is WHITE!
    in season 2008 by lizalilyhref>

  • jodik_gw
    16 years ago

    I don't have a photo to share for comparison... I just wanted to comment that these flowers are living genetic things, and there WILL be differences from grower to grower and from owner to owner... there will be differences even within one growers lot of a single variety... we have to expect that.

    Cloning is the only way to have an identical flower...

    With that said, I think we also have a right to get what we order and pay for... if a company advertises a certain look or color, we should expect our ordered flowers to match, or at least be a fairly close match to the catalog picture...

    So, why are certain varieties so far off the mark? Certainly, the grower can see that the flowers of this season differ from the flowers of previous seasons... I guess my question is, knowing there will be slight differences within a batch of bulbs, how does a variety change so much, and why don't the growers and sellers acknowledge these changes?

  • haweha
    16 years ago

    Previously I believed that the "new" look of that what seemingly everybody has to experience out of this season's bulbs of "Grandeur was a variation within the true cultivar.

    The style with the wrong color (white) is not sufficient as proof of the contrary, because the filaments of both cultivars are "already" white. (That means hat the red color is a very "superficial" feature and sometimes simply "absent")
    And, go-figure, I discovered an older version with the correct general base color (vivid red) but equipped with a WHITE style!
    US national collection, 21st picturehref>

    But, now I perceived that the "new" Grandeur is capable of producíng 6 flowers per umbel.
    Did anyone experience this high count out of the previous version of Grandeur?!
    Honestly I do not exclude any more that the present version is another cultivar which was chosen to replace the older due to better cultivation properties (in reference to commercial conditions well understood) while the other was secretly discontinued...

  • haweha
    16 years ago

    BTW. my final conclusion (after having watched several pictures) is that lizalily did correctly assume that her "Melusine" is actually "Rembrandt van Rijn"

  • soultan
    16 years ago

    I don't think it is a Grandeur on US National Arboretum's site. At least, if it is, then it is a very mutated version, just as Liza's flower. The Grandeur I have is even "wilder" looking than Maria's. I will see if it will bloom for me this year, so I can make a picture of it. Some of these, like Liza's and the USNA version should be called Grandeur var. or something.
    The National Arboretum's site is full of mistakes anyway, and they have not updated it since 2004, and the e-mail address to contact them is not working. Did they forget about this site?

    And yes, the colors of Liza's fake Melusine look like Rembrandt van Rijn. My Melusine looked way different from this.

  • jodik_gw
    16 years ago

    So, why wouldn't the growers and/or sellers change the catalog photos to the updated version? Surely, they must realize that to have accurate catalog pages is to keep more customers and make those customers happy...

  • mariava7
    16 years ago

    Grandeur
    Source: Easy to Grow Bulbs, March 2007
    4 flowers/scape
    1 scape from a 22 1/2cm bulb

    {{gwi:378275}}

    {{gwi:384813}}

    {{gwi:384817}}

    Besides the difference of the red style and the # of flowers/scape as Sir Hans mentioned, this Grandeur has a green eye.

  • Noni Morrison
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Now that is what I thought I was getting! But mine came from the same source. COuld it be a difference in daylight hours?
    But then, mine had 6 buds on each scape, and it was a nice long lasting flower, that grew prettier by the day, so no complaints now...

  • soultan
    16 years ago

    I have the kind that is featured on Royal Colors' site.

    {{gwi:384821}}
    This picture is a little tweaked up.

  • haweha
    16 years ago

    This is the correct version. You can even perceive the reddish, white tipped styles of the two lowermost flowers.
    This is an older advertisement picture which is existing for I dont know howe many y. I saw a new one which showed the new, darker version.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Royal colors

  • soultan
    16 years ago

    The last picture in the row? That should be Magic Green. A color corrected, darkened version.

  • haweha
    16 years ago

    Even a color corrected version (with enhanced contrasts) will not change the relation "dark center / bright periphery" which is so conspicuous in the "new version of Grandeur" and so very well perceivable in lizalilie's picture.
    "Magic Green" is equipped with a diametrally opposite color profile. Maria's pictures (and not only hers) show that so very well. The center of the flower is magically green!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Mariava's Magic Green

  • soultan
    16 years ago

    Royal Colors used that picture for Rembrandt van Rijn for months, before they switched to the present version. I love that flower on that picture, but it does not look Grandeur to me, and now that you pointed it out, I must agree, it also does not look like Magic Green. Now, it would be nice to find out what it should be.

  • palmcoastgarden
    16 years ago

    My Melusine from Royal Colors turned out to be Rembrandt van Rijn. I emailed them today, and the customer service person apologized and has extended me a credit on Melusine for next year.

  • Noni Morrison
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    OH! That is so confirming because that is exactly what happened to me! When did you order or receive yours? I ordered mine right after the Christmas holiday, maybe even Dec 31. I have to say that their Rembrandt Van Rijn was by far the biggest most beautiful ones I recieved from about 3 other orders!I think it still has two blooms left on the 2nd one! Sure shows the better quality! I am sure looking forward to seeing Melusine next year!

  • palmcoastgarden
    16 years ago

    I got the order from RC at the end of Jan. So that tells me the whole batch of Melusine was mislabelled. Now their website says that they are out of the Melusine. Perhaps they stopped selling it as Melusine, as soon as a customer notified them that it was mislabelled. I hope you emailled them, to get a credit for next year. Maybe next year it will really be Melusine. I'm gotten frustrated trying to get Melusine: I've order it from 3 different sources over a 3 year period, each time it was mislabelled.

  • Noni Morrison
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Oh yes! I E-mailed them and have credit waiting for next year. And yes, we were part of the same batch, as that was when my bulbs arrived also. I wish someone who works in the industry could tell us how the mislabeling happens...and where does it happen? Is it in the field at harvest? Do lables fall off on the way to the company who mails them out? DO they get dumped into the wrong bins? Fall on the floor and someone pickes them up and throws them into the nearest bin? Or do they have workers who can not read the language or are dyslexic packing bulbs?

  • jodik_gw
    16 years ago

    Labeling can take place at either the grower or seller level... it depends on how the grower ships out the product. Some may label each pot or flat cell, or in this case, bulb... but they may also ship out bulk product with labels on the side for the seller to adhere... I worked at a garden center for a few years, what seems a lifetime ago, and we occasionally got stock in with only one generic label per flat of pots, and the picture labels were either included and we had to label them, or we had to order the picture tags separate from a commercial grower supplier.

    With all that in mind, add a busy season, temp workers, and a renewed popularity of the product... and you have quite a possibility that labels will go on the wrong flats or pots or bulbs! It's inevitable, and unfortunate, that some portion of the bulbs sold will be tagged wrong.

    To find out who is responsible, we'd have to ask each company if they receive their bulbs already labeled or not. I don't know about last year, but there just seems to be a rather high percentage of mislabeled bulbs noted this past season.

  • mariava7
    16 years ago

    OUCH!!! I have a dyslexic child and she will definitely not read Rembrant Van Rijn as Melusine.

  • Noni Morrison
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    LOL...no, that is pretty far reach! NO matter what languages or lack of, I do not think they would end up being easily mistaken for the same words!

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